vetterli vitali model 1870/87/15 rehab

[burb1989]

hi everyone. i have a vetterli vitali model 1870/87/15 that i picked up at a gun show here in mississippi last week and i`m glad i did. It was made by the Torino arsenal in 1889 and redone for the 6.5X52 mm Carcano ammo in 1915. It has a cleaning rod with it but i think the grooves in the wood must be stripped since after a quarter turn of the rod it reloosenes and i have to start over. I can get it to where it is tight but it still sticks out past the barrel (i`m picky about my old rifles looking good since i am a collector of ww1 and ww2 bolt action rifles). I was lucky the dealer i bought it from also had a shortened bayonet for it and threw it in with the gun. I bought the entire package for 150 bucks and it does fire. I`m scared about shooting the rounds i have for it even though they`re 139 grains i still want them a little less powerful in case something bad happens. All of the numbers on it match but the cartouches seem to have faded away with time unfourtunately. These aren`t that common to come by down here and i thought it would be a cool looking gun to have in my collection.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[burb1989]

i`m not sure if this was a great buy or not so anyone`s input on the subject would be great. Also i do plan on someday firing it and if anyone has any advice on what grain size bullets i should use tha would be extremely helpful. Thanks again.

[Patrick Chadwick]

These rifles appear to have had a bad reputation with the Italians who had to use them. The 1870/87/15 was a WWI emergency conversion, and was apparently know as "Il Terribile" - The Awful One. Often sold as the "Garibaldi Rifle", which is, of course, total B-S. And I do not know of anyone who has fired one. You would be well advised to keep the load firmly at the light end of the range. The normal .264" diameter bullet is a touch undersized for the Carcano, so that will help to avoid stress on the ancient mechanism. I would not recommend trying the .268" Hornady bullets specifically made for the Carcano. They work fine in my 91/41, but that is a much more modern design of rifle, and mine was was arsenal reconditioned in 1947.

As to the cleaning rod : if it is of the correct length, then the fact that you still have some sticking out beyond the muzzle indicates that there is no "stripped wood" problem, but rather that the bottom end of the hole is clogged wth debris, and you are trying to screw the rod into that!

[burb1989]

oh well that makes sense i did pull some stuff out of the hole but never really thought anything of it. it is still tight in there so as a display it is ok for now but when i go to shoot it i`ll need to clean it out a little more. thanks for the input. The bullets i have for it aren`t the hornady ones made for the carcano. i think they are privi partisan rounds that are 6.5 carcano but im not going to shoot those since i`m unsure if they`ll be good for the old action or not. At best if they aren`t that good i have a friend who does reloading so he`ll be able to help me take apart the bullets and put new powder in them if need be.

[marysdad]

The issue with firing factory ammo in these is not bullet weight, but powder charge. The 6.5 mm. cartridge generates pressures far in excess of the Vetterli's design pressure (roughly double). The bore on mine is pretty close to .264. Regardless of bore diameter, the .268 bullets are not recommended for reduced loads, which rules out use in the Vetterli-Carcano. If you want to shoot it, you need to use reduced handloads with .264 jacketed bullets or loads using cast lead bullets.

[burb1989]

That`s what i figured. My friend can fire the carcano ammunition and then we can salvage the brass. I bought 150 bullet heads from him and now he`s searching for the firing caps for the back of the brass. we downloaded some possible loads online from other people who have successfully shot these delicate guns and they all seem to say just about the same thing when it comes to the load. I had the gun checked out by a gunsmith who is very familiar with these rifles and after about a week he concluded that it could be safe to fire but to watch out in case a microcrack developed over the years. Thanks again everyone and i hope to have some pictures of my rifle and its bayonet very soon!

[burb1989]

Here`s some photos of this old war horse. She`s beat around the bushes a bit but she still looks nice. Sorry if these photos are grainy to everyone. I might need to go to another place with better lighting to take better pics.

[2fit661ca]

I actually just purchased one of these today from a dealer at a gun show. He said that it should be fine to shoot the modern Prvi loads, so I went ahead and shot eight rounds so far and I still have my face, so I guess I'm lucky. I hadn't done any research, so I was unaware of the risks.

Good luck with your rifle, sir, and if you happen to find or create some good reloading data, please share!!

Thanks
-2fit

[Patrick Chadwick]

Good luck with your rifle, sir, and if you happen to find or create some good reloading data, please share!!

I thoroughly agree. Those rifles have a bad reputation, so producing any modern reloading data that would serve to rehabilitate them would be something in the nature of a public service!

[burb1989]

Thanks to all. I`ll keep researching reloads and if i find anything i`ll post it up. Until then this old rifle is just going to look pretty on its display sand next to is bayonet.