L4A1 mag on the L1A1 Rifle?

[DOD 7.62]

Thanks Peter, yes I understand that as Lithgow already had patent rights for Bren barrels they did produce L4 barrels un-impeded. I think KG told me that, I do note that the Lithgow L4 magazines are clearly stamped on the side with the model designation, the manufacturer (MA), the part # and the date of manufacture. The straight L2 30 rd mags have nothing, so you might think all this identification may be a result of some patent requirement. I understand Lithgow were allowed to produce a copy of the Sterling SMG mag for our F1 SMG under the strict proviso it was not be sold to other markets, like when Lithgow undercut Enfield on L1A1 sales to traditional UK markets. Perhaps by the early 70's they'd done a similar deal with L4 mags? Hence all the markings. I'll try post a photo of one when I get a chance.

Daniel

[Peter Laidler]

Don't worry about a photo. When you've seen zillions of them, one L4 mag looks just like the other!

Incidentally, Clive Connors contempt for the L2 rifle was absolute. I asked him one day if it was just because he'd been born and brought up with Brens. Nope....... He said the the L2 was just a heavy rifle and not a section machine gun (god, if only he could see the SA80 L86 LSW that we had..... I sent one to Australia too!). He was right of course. The sections need an LMG while the platoons needed an M-60/L7 was his outlook.. He and Jock Annandale (the Kiwi) taught me all that was good about a Warrant Officer. Unfortunately, I skipped those Staff Sergeant and Warrant ranks. Oh well..... Kind thoughts Jock and Clive

[Bruce_in_Oz]

So, which came first: theh Oz L2 or the Canadian C2?

I understand that the C2 came first and Lithgow "localized" the beast as the L2A1. There are probably notes somewhere from the appropriate "steering committee".

In my early days I put quite a few rounds through L2s. What I could NEVER understand was when the handguards were folded down to form a bipod, there was NO shielding over the barrel. More than a few "switched-off" diggers burnt their hands on a hot barrel. The Belgian FALO "LSW", as used by the IDF etc., at least had reasonable handguards. What were these committee people thinking?

The other thing about Brens is that there was a proposal to rebuild them at Lithgow to accept the "new" NATO cartridge, even before that round was in its final form and designation. It was referred to as a "Bren, Calibre .30", by which I understand they meant the "Cal .30 T56" round or similar, as we are talking about 1953- 54 here. There used to be a drawing in the archives at Lithgow. Sadly this document is probably buried in a damp cardboard box at the Powerhouse Museum if it has not already been destroyed or "souvenired".

In a final bit of Bren-related trivia, someone in Oz had the idea that the elegant aluminium-legged bipod on the MAG-58, should be replaced by grafting the legs and swivel part of a Bren bipod onto a modified MAG 58 bipod head. The piece-de-resistance was the welding of perforated "handguard wings" onto the Bren legs. It seems there were a few folk who appreciated the hand-protecting characteristics of the M-60 fore-end and thought it would be a nice feature on the MAG58. Who knows what will be dreamt up next?

I always figured that if the geniuses had fitted the feed mechanism from a MAG58 (itself lifted almost directly from the MG-42), onto the M-60 it would have bee a much better thing at once. The MG-42 trigger, which also found its way into the MAG58 would also have helped a lot; but I guess we will never know now.

[Peter Laidler]

We had both the M-60 and the L7A1 in Australia and Malaya and to be honest, once that they'd got a taste of the L7 the M-60 didn't stand a chance. Once again Clive Connors said that we (I say we but I mean Australia) had it because they were virtually gifted by the US to ensure some degree of standardisation in SVN and OZ didn't have anything else. Britain couldn't supply L7's as the licensing agreement was too tightly sewn up. Luckily, we had them in Malaya but the poms didn't take to the GPMG as a jungle warfare weapon and continued to use the L4 and the Vickers as the MMG in Borneo until August 1968.

[TCBF]

When the 'Service Rifle Shooting Association' was still running full auto shoots at Borden in the early eighties, I had a chance to fire an L4 Bren using my C2 mags. Worked fine.