Myths and Truths of No.1 EY Rifles (by Peter Laidler)

[Alfred]

Well heres what I found earlier.

2/33rd Australian Infantry Battalion; QX61195 Private Henry Richard Maris, 2/33 Btn; using a rifle grenade launcher with EY (Edward Yule - inventor) discharger cup (these were ordinary .303 rifles no longer suitable for use as a rifle, but with the discharger cup fitted they were used as grenade launchers, copper wire wound around hand guards on barrel to prevent barrel rupturing when fired)

Australian War Memorial

Sounds like the EY marking came before the decision to have EY marked rifles designated as Emergency Use Only.
EY just never sounded much like it was meant to stand for the word Emergency. The propensity of the British to string initials together such as "STEN" and "BREN" would seem to point to Edward Yule's Initials being the origin of the markings.

Of course it could have been Uncle Vinny who came up with the term "Emergency Youse" but I doubt it.

[Badger]

EY just never sounded much like it was meant to stand for the word Emergency.

In my opinion only, I seriously doubt that the British Military would formally stamp a rifle with Edward Yule's initials, to be translated by some "grunt" in the field to mean "May be used for ball ammo in emergency".

I could be wrong, but having served 17 years and seen a lot of government marks and mannerisms in stamping things, it seems more likely to me to be:

EmergencY = "May be used for ball ammo in emergency".

Anyway, the 1945 manual at least makes it clear from that point forward in time.

Does anyone here have an research or empirical data showing that Edward Yule invented the grenade discharger, other the text in the link above written as a post script to discuss the portrait shown?

Regards,
Badger

[Alfred]

Well offhand I can't remember any instance of the first and last letter being used as an abreviation, doesn't seem to be a normal practice in American English at least.
The Initials "S" for Shepard and "T" for Turpin with "EN" for Enfield added up to STEN for the Stengun.

Surely someone designed the discharger cup, is anyone else credited with it?

Similar discharger cups were used at least as far back as the Wheel lock days. Some nice examples survive in museums.

Anyway, the 1945 manual at least makes it clear from that point forward in time.

Seems these rifles predate 1945 by quite a few years.

Post script to above.
A quick search shows that the 1917 issue Cup Discharger is credited to a New Zealander by the name of Robert Burns.
Haven't found any mentions of Edward Yule as of yet, though several gentlemen by the name of Yule were noted inventors at the turn of the century.

Yet another bit to ponder

A few passing memories of our days in the Home Guard ...

I was an 'EY Rifleman'. The 'E.Y'. rifle was named after Sir Ernest Youlle (?) who invented it, or more accurately, adapted it from the standard Lee-Enfield rifle.

To convert the Lee Enfield to an 'EY rifle' it was first reinforced by binding the rifle stock with tough wire, then to the muzzle was affixed a cup, and into the breech
was inserted a ballistite* cartridge (that may not be how it was spelt but it is as

BBC - WW2 People's War - Remembering the 40s - before and during the war
Apparently Youlle or Youle as its spelled on another site did not invent the discharger cup, he came up with the idea of wire wrapping otherwise less than prime rifles for dedicated use as launchers.

[Alfred]

Last edited by Badger : Today at 06:17 AM. Reason: Mulitple sequential posts combined for simplicity .......

Thanks there doesn't seem to be an edit function if I come back to a post with new information, or I'd have put these all together myself.

Anyway I got to thinking on this and the thread title has it pretty well put, there are "Myths" about practically every weapon.

I found a site with the Homeguard manual and was suprized at how sparse the information there was. I guess the Homeguard depended almost entirely on experianced veterans as instructors along with whatever manuals and pamphlets they could dig up for their often non standard weapons.

The term "Emergency Use" doesn't seem to have made its way down to those expected to carry the EY rifles in combat.

I still have a feeling that the Initials EY were not originally meant to be abreviations for Emergency, that wouldn't match any normal use of Abreviations in English, but then again there is the EFD marking to denote E-n-Fiel-D.

I have a feeling the logical progression would be as if a Drill Purpose DP marked rifle were listed as unsuitable for ball ammunition and in later years DP were accepted to mean unsuitable with its original drill Purpose meaning forgotten.

PS
Found another alternate definition for EY, some thought it meant "Extra Yoke". Meaning I suppose the binding as a "Yoke" or band.

[Jollygreenslugg]

I would have thought that the process that shortened 'Converted' as 'Cond' was the same process that shortened 'Emergency' as 'EY'. First and last, and all that.

Cheers,
Matt

[Alfred]

I would have thought that the process that shortened 'Converted' as 'Cond' was the same process that shortened 'Emergency' as 'EY'. First and last, and all that.

Cheers,
Matt

Yep, I looked around a bit to check out abreviations and found that EFD and EY would be considered Symbols rather than true Abreviations, like the symbol for Megahertz being MHz.

Some other unusual two letter codes are
MH for Marshall Islands and the same letters for Montserat.

[Claven2]

By the way, is 17SWG or .060" wire still available? I have a partly knackered MkIII* EY that could use a re-wrap. Also, PETER: How best to solder the wire without burning the stock wood?

[No4Mk1(T)]

By the way, is 17SWG or .060" wire still available? I have a partly knackered MkIII* EY that could use a re-wrap.

Check any welding supply shop. If I remember .060 wire is one of the more common sizes used in wire feed welders.

[Claven2]

Actually, wire feed welders use steel wire, not copper, and the diameter is typicalle about .035"

Anyone else have an idea?

Also, I measured the wire diameter on two EY rifles tonight and got .044" diameter, not the .056" diameter of 17SWG. .040" is 17 AWG - any chance Peter got them mixed up?