No4 fore end fitting

[aussiedave]

I am putting a no4 mk1/3 I recently bought back together and I have a small problem. The previous owner had the fore end fitted without a collar and now the timber is compressed.When I put a collar in the fore end and tightened the main screw the fore end is very loose. What is the solution ,shorten the collar, will this put the trigger guard out of alignment or chisel out the timber in the trigger guard cutout and glue in a patch of timber and
refit the trigger guard.
Any help greatly appreciated.

Thank You
Dave

Information

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[muffett.2008]

Patch back to size, allow for slight compression.

[Peter Laidler]

If I was you Aussie Dave, I'd read up an an article wot I writ about fitting fore-ends a year or so ago and goes into detail about fitting the collar and about how important it is It details exactly how and what to do. But it's your rifle and up to you.........

[Badger]

Check here...

Index of Peter Laidler's series of formal Knowledge Library articles and selected archived posts ... (click here)

Barrel Manufacture & Alignment
Breeching Up
Butt & Wood Fitting
Cartridge Headspace (CHS)
Cocking Bent & Sear - Parts 1-3
Fitting a Fore End Correctly
Fitting Rifle Bolts - CHS and Boltheads
FORESIGHTS and the No4 rifle
Safety Catch and Bolt Locking
Trigger Pull Off
No.5 Wandering Zero (The Facts)

Regards,
Doug

[Peter Laidler]

I was thinking about your suggestion regarding patching the front trigger guard area Muffer and have some reservations I fear. Sorry to sound contrary.........., but....... The whole of the rotational forces are centred about that point (this might not be 100% correct as I'm thinking on my feet here.....) and any patch would either be right through the area from the underside of the front of the trigger guard through to the underside of the body or PARTIALLY through the area. In the first instance, the patch would only be supported by the edges of the patch, glued to the existing fore-end and subject to shear forces on the wood glue that would try to pull the patch clear. IT couldn't be pulled clear of course but just not good practice I fear. If you just patched the area half way depth, then the original supporting wood is still only have strength!

Thinking about this I spoke to Robbie Robertson the old long retired Base workshop foreman who's been fixing Enfields since he was an apprentice in the late 30's. HJe could see my point but cannot ever remember patching a crushed that part of a fore-end. If that important part of the fore-end is gone, then that's it.

He DID remind me of course, and I'd forgotten about it, was that the production L42's were sort-of reinforced there by having the slot for the front trigger guard plate fitted. Maybe that's the answer to Aussie Daves problem such that it is.

And the good news is that I'm having dinner with Robbie and a few of the other oldies next week now! They always laugh when I tell 'em how collectable these old rifles are now.

[aussiedave]

Peter I have read the collar fitting instructions . How short is too short for the collar , and being shorter the angle of the trigger guard is changed. This is a Mk2 fore end so the trigger pull is not affected but what about mag fit. With the patch I was thinking about undercutting the fore end to make the patch wider . I thought T slot type cutter in the milling machine would work. Might have to make a fly cutter the right size.

Thank You
Dave

[Peter Laidler]

Too short is when the collar is not nipped up between the trigger guard and the rifle body. Too long and the fore-end isn't nipped up between the trigger guard and the body. Just right is when the front trigger guard screw nips up the collar AND the fore-end tightly between the trigger guard and the rifle body. I cannot think of a simpler way to explain it I'm afraid. The fact that it is a Mk2 fore-end makes no difference to the question. It's what is CORRECT is all that counts. Look..., stop fretting and getting into surmantics about trigger guard angles etc etc. The collar should be square at both ends and the trigger guard MUST BE FLAT and lay flat in its recess in the fore-end.

If you are REALLY concerned, forget the patch and just reinforce the section as per the L42

[RobD]

Seems rather extreme, to me, to cut away perfectly good fore-end wood and patch in a new block of wood, for a minor problem. My suggestion will no doubt attract incoming fire, but here goes: if it were my rifle, I'd superglue a layer or two (or three) of hardwood veneer, cut to shape, into the trigger guard recess. I'd get the correct shape by fitting a piece of paper first, to make a template. If the front needs to be filled more than the back, I'd build up the front a bit more , and sand the layers flat. When cutting the veneers, I'd run the grain diagonally and criss-cross successive layers. When the superglue is set, I'd trim out the magazine slot and screw holes with a hobby knife and file. Nothing will be visible when the trigger guard is installed.
An even simpler solution, which is reversible, would be to lay in inlays of smooth card (e.g. playing cards) into the recess. I've used playing cards to make shims before in other situations, and they worked just fine. Cards are completely incompressible. In fact, you could start with cards and once you are pleased with the fitting of the trigger guard, you could replace with veneers...