Lee Enfield No.1 Mk III* Fore end / receiver bedding

[Matell]

Hi all. I’m a new member and short time lurker on here (and some other Enfield forums) and am also a new first time owner of a 1944 Lithgow No.1 Mk III* 'smelly'. Everything on it matches and is all Aussie made parts. The only non-matching item is the butt stock which has a 1945 stamp on it. I'm also an Expat Aussie living in the US, so having a piece of home with me is priceless.

So I’ve completely stripped it down to its components, given it a good clean, re-oil etc and am about ready to assemble it. I think the bore may be a little worn and the headspace is near the limit of the no-go, and field gages, but hopefully it’s ok, and I can turn it into a casual shooter.
However I think in the cleaning process (and in hindsight) I know I made a few boo-boos with the fore end, such as oiling up the recoil lugs (after taking the copper pads out for a clean) etc, and I think I may have removed some (or all) of the original receiver bedding compound.
I have a few books on the Enfields, including "The 2012 Complete Book on Lee Enfield Accurizing", but would prefer to re-bed the receiver in the way it would've been from the factory so I can keep it's collectors value.

I’ve also looked for a copy of James Sweet’s Competitive Rifle Shooting, 1954 ed based on the posts I’ve found researching this matter, but none of the links for the pdf download are active. I could always get the folks back home in Aus to track down a copy for me I guess.

So I wanted to check the bedding since I’d removed some of the original Khaki/OD coloured stuff in there, by trying the talc+WD40 method for checking bedding as detailed in Mr Wadhams book. I reassembled the receiver/barrel back into the fore end, with the copper recoil/sear pads installed, and boy it was a tight fit. I also couldn’t get the trigger guard rear pin in very easily.

The barrel at the muzzle end was skewed to the right a little. Getting it apart (I’d been doing it wrong – wiggling the fore end off the receiver/barrel by pulling at the mid band area) was a chore! (*cringe*)

When it came free, there was a nice little transfer of copper onto the left sear lugs, and wear mark on the left pad, but not much on the right. A paper shim under the right pad seemed to bring the muzzle a little closer to center and created perfectly equal witness marks on the sears/pads, however I saw no indications of Talc being removed even though it looked flattened a little.

So firstly I’m not going to remove the fore end that way again, but I’ve inspected for cracks and it all looks sound. Is there anything else I should look for?

Secondly and the main motive for my post, is what advice do you guys have for bedding the receiver in a reversible manner? I’d prefer to protect the collectors value if I can, so I’m hesitant to do the epoxy bedding method as detailed in 2012 Complete Book on Lee-Enfield Accurizing. I’ve also never done a bedding job before and don’t want to screw up.

I’m now letting the receiver dry for several days-week after cleaning the talc, and WD40 etc out of the receiver area with water then turps, and am hoping to find some direction from the community while I wait on bedding.

Thanks and sorry for the blabbing!

Information

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[Bindi2]

A 1944 action could have a 45 dated butt because it may have been assembled in 45.

[Son]

It sounds like there isn't anything to do except maybe use a little bit of brass shim behind the lug with light contact. to even them up.

When removing the foreend, only pull down at the receiver end. What you need to do it take out the loose side copper plate, slip the foreend onto the receiver and feel how tight it is to get into place. Then, take that plate off and refit the loose one, shimming behind it (not with paper) as you keep trying it until it fits with the same tension. Then refit it with both plates in place and see how true the foreend is at the muzzle. As long as it isn't warped, it should be very close to centered. When you reassemble, make sure the front trigger guard screw bush is in place, fit the rear trigger guard screw first, then the front. the spring at the inner band screw goes between the screw head and the metal washer in the foreend, and the screw must be locked up tight. Make sure you haven't lost the barrel centering stud and spring from the front at the nosecap and re assemble it.

Before you even think about altering the bedding, you need to shoot some groups under good conditions. Shoot off a bench with front and rear bags, firing 5 shot groups. With the rear sight set at 200yds, (don't try it set below 200) it will only be 1 1/2 inches high at 100 with service ammo. Once you have a few groups on paper, then come back and we can discuss the need if any, to mess with the standard bedding. I always suggest not fooling with them because they can be very hit and miss with regards to trying to improve it, and a "miss" can result in a ruined foreend. This, if matching, will destroy any collector value, and be very hard to replace with a decent one... they don't exactly grow on trees anymore.
The reason there is so many books about bedding is the prolific use of heavy barrels by competition shooters. This required a lot of re working of the foreend which ruined the original bedding anyway- so they had to start from scratch. It's a fair bet it will shoot as good as the barrel lets it with the standard bedding anyway.

[tbonesmith]

And Welcome to the forum Matell, pleasure to have another Aussie on board!!

[Peter Laidler]

Mattel........., can I respectfully make a suggestion that is going to save you absolutely hours and hours of time, effort and eventually money. But you'll have to, as they say in the world of banking, speculate to accumulate.

Armourers have been fitting these fore-ends since pontius was a pilot and there is a Canadian REME (RCEME) Armourers 'idiots guide' to fitting fore-ends without recourse to all of the stuff that you're going into such as epoxy this, talc that, shims here and there.............. TO be really and brutally honest, I've been an Armourer for a couple of years and I ain't never, yet had recourse to all this stuff. That's not to say that I might not in the future but don't hold your breath........

Look............ go onto the BDL Ltd site (the main man is a contributor to this forum, he's a nice sort of bloke and don't bite........) and get from him a little RCEME booklet that he's had re-printed. It's a sort of early version of an idiots guide to the current EMER's and it'll walk you through the ARMY method of doing what you want to do. And it's CHEAP too! Put it another way. If the most senior Armourer in the British Army had a well thumbed, oily and greasy copy of this very booklet on his bench and rolled-up and stuffed in hios pockets when he was on the ranges that he used as a ready reckoner for the Vickers, Brens and Lewis guns plus the old SMLE's etc etc that were still used occasionally at the School of Infantry, then it speaks volumes about it

That brings me to another subject. If you want to retain a high degree of originality, then this is the way to do it. And another thing. There is no such thing as a Field gauge for CHS. There are only TWO gauges for the rifle. .064" GO and .074" NO-GO. If you have worn out draws, there's even a pictorial essay guide on this very forum that will walk you through how to replace them, exactly as Armourers have done so since time began

I hope you didn't mind me answering your Q in a roundabout but forthright way

[Matell]

Thanks guys.

Peter I'm very grateful for your forthright comments. Forthright comments are always the most convincing for me. I'm by no means experienced or an expert in these things and I appreciate a good reality check so I don't totally make a dogs breakfast of something!

I'll just button it all back together, and go see how it shoots first and foremost, and go from there. I'll also try to track down a copy of that booklet. Would you mind telling me what it's called so I can narrow down the many booklets listed there?

Cheers,

Matt

[Peter Laidler]

I got my copy from Brian at BDL. Just ask him for the booklet that I've got on my bench.......

[Brian Dick]

C.O.C. Training Centre A. 21 Lecture Precis No.46, Extracts From Instructions for Armourers Revised Feb 1943.

[Matell]

C.O.C. Training Centre A. 21 Lecture Precis No.46, Extracts From Instructions for Armourers Revised Feb 1943.

Thanks very much Brian. You should have an IM.

[smellie]

I hesitate to mention this in this company, but you can reduce the effective "headspace" of your rifle to ZERO by making use of what I call "Ed's Famous O-Rings".

What you do is get a supply of inexpensive rubber O-rings (I use pony-tail ties from our local Dollar Store: just got 500 for a dollar and they are even BLACK: tactical, if you like!). You place one of these little rubber rings on each cartridge, just above the Rim, and fire them like that.

The rubber ring presses the Cartridge back against the Bolt-face, effectively reducing your headspace to zero. Your brass, on firing, fire-forms perfectly to YOUR chamber.

Combined with handloading with flat-base bullets, this can really help to reduce the size of your groups.

As an added bonus, your brass now will last a great deal longer.

I have used this on several "problem children" here with impressive results. The only difficulty (and it is not crippling) is that I now segregate my brass by the rifle in which it is fired. Brass now lasts 15 rounds or more, with annealing. This is much better than 2 or 3 firings which generally is considered normal.

The O-ring is used only on the first firing of the casing. After that, the case spaces on its SHOULDER, up into the Chamber, while it is butting against the Bolt-face.

This gives you the tightest possible FIT for your cartridges and the LEAST room for error.

At a fifth of a cent per casing, it is very cheap indeed for preserving expensive brass..... and your groups improve into the bargain, no extra charge!

Hope this helps.