Australian use of old Ross sniper rifles in WWII??

[DocAV]

A thing that adds to the Ross Rifle-P14 Confusion is that in Czechoslovakia and other Eastern European Nations, the "P14" was known as the "Ross-Enfield" for some strange reason
(found this moniker in a Czech Language Bayonet Book I picked up in Prague, 1993).

The Soviets also used this name for Both The P14 ( from Estonia etc) and the Ross Rifle ( Aid to the Czar in 1916).

Australia used P14 rifles with either British Aldis Patt.18 scopes or set up in Australia with AOC-made Scopes (P18); the SMLE HT did not get into production until 1944, and very few were issued before mid-1945;
Plenty of photos exist of the 2/2Commandos in Timor with P14 (F)(T)...Winchester (F) rifles were preferentially used (F==Fine Micrometer rear sight), and also of use in North Africa and Greece.
Britain had dismantled all its SMLE snipers of WW I, and a lot of the P14s as well. Hence the rapid development of the No4 HT, and the recall of any P14s still in good order in 1939.

As to Aussie Use of Ross with Warner and Swasey scopes... who knows??? Skennerton's deep investigation of Aussie Service Rifles did not pick any up, whilst scoring "Ring Ins" like the Dutch Johnsons ( KNIL Air Force attached to RAAF) and Canadian No4 Rifles ( diverted to Australia after Fall of Hong Kong and used by RAAF and In training Units in southern Australia).

Doc AV

[Frederick303]

Not sure if this helps but my copy of NSWRA service rifle rules for 1937 does not allow any rifle but the SMLE MK III, MKIII*, MK III heavy barrel or shortened MLE. The allowable modifications are listed and there is no mention of the Ross at all. So the likelihood of these being pre-war range rifles is unlikely.

[Surpmil]

I have both a Ross MKIII and a P14. The P14 is by way far the kicker. My 13yo shoots the Ross with no recoil problems but avoids tha P14 like the plauge.

That's interesting, but I can't say why that might be!

OP: any update on the 92 year old vet?

[martins8589]

That's interesting, but I can't say why that might be!

OP: any update on the 92 year old vet?

I think it is due to the length of the barrel and stock -weight of the Ross.

Minimal recoil is felt with the M96 Swede rifle over the carbine as well.

[Sniper1944]

Is there any evidence to suggest that Ross sniper rifles were used outside of the training in Canada during WW2? With the short supply of No.4T's to Canada during the early to mid stages of the war I'm wondering if they pressed the Ross back into operational service especially in places like Italy?





Thanks,

Paul.

[browningautorifle]

Not very likely.

[Sniper1944]

As in evidence or them being used outside of Canada?





Paul.

[browningautorifle]

I've never seen anything about it at all, they weren't that short of gear. All we see is the off line use, such as home guard in the UK and US...even here in Canada, my father-in-law used an M1917 as his issue rifle...no Ross. I've talked to lots of guys that were there also and not once have they mentioned a Ross...

[Surpmil]

Is there any evidence to suggest that Ross sniper rifles were used outside of the training in Canada during WW2? With the short supply of No.4T's to Canada during the early to mid stages of the war I'm wondering if they pressed the Ross back into operational service especially in places like Italy?

Thanks,

Paul.

Telescope equipped Ross rifles were requested by the UK in 1940 after Dunkirk. Canadian reply was that all were needed for training. At least 80 Warner & Swasey scopes were taken to the UK by the 1st Cdn. Div. in 1940. These were fitted to P14 rifles in the UK by persons unknown. Ross MkIIIs with Warner & Swasey scopes were used for training in Canada until at least 1943, in 1944 it was recommended the scopes be scrapped; it seems most were. This is all from "Without Warning". Pacific Coast Militia Rangers were issued the MkIII in WWII as well as Winchester 94 and M17 rifles. Photos show Rosses being used by Veterans Guard or a few other security details in Canada I believe. I have seen textual references to PoW camp guards using them for example.

Since the P14 was already on issue it wouldn't have made sense to introduce another rifle into overseas service.

[Sniper1944]

Cheers guys, was just something I was wondering while I was going through "Without Warning" a few weeks ago, since it mentions the rifles stayed in Canada, but not the full extent of what was done with them before they were officially scrapped.





Paul.