MY Winchester transitional Carbine: It's correct!

[imarangemaster]

M193 is the original 55 grain boat tail military load. The steel core has several purposes. Being lighter than lead, it allows the 62 grain projectile to be longer (more stable) in 1/7 twist. It is also a "penetrator" for hard targets, but not necessarily armor. And Thanks, BUbba, but I am hanging on to this carbine...

Well I detailed stripped everything (including bolt) and cleaned it inside out. Everything in Winchester. I fired it some more, and realized that i was using the 200 yard setting for the 25-35 yards and a 6 o'clock hold. On the 100/150, it is dead on point of aim (thus low). That's fine, I will just use the 200 setting, as I don't want to trim the sight, or mess with anything since it is all original.

Ejection settled down after I cleaned the carbon out of the ejector spring, though it is still sending them from 6 o'clock to 8 o'clock. I never had one that dropped them to the left. I am thinking the ejector spring may be really stiff, and it flings them! Oh well, I am leaving that original too, since they don't seem to hit me in the face! Function with R-P factory and 110 Plated loads over 15 grains of 296 was 100% I was just shooting off hand at various objects, sometimes leaning on the Jeep hood, and it was dead on, though it is two clicks left of centered. I did 5 shots in about 1.5 inch (with several touching) at 25 yards on a paper target I had in my bag. Would love to see what it could do from a real rest. I really like the squareness of the Winchester stock. The forearm sets flat in the off-hand like the flat of the triangular handguard of the M16s I used back in the day....

Well, this one won't be patrolling with me, its too nice and too original. I have my AR15 dialed in, so this can stay in the safe unless I want to plink.

[ChipS]

Very nice original carbine with a very nice price tag, even with the ammo. Better (read 'cleaner original') than anything I have. I'm very happy for you. I know this will take a little of the sting out of giving up your SP. Semper Fi.

[imarangemaster]

Having sold the Standard Products and the Inland, this does take the sting out. Transitionals like this are really cool: Factory installed adjustable sights and Type II barrel bands make them good shooters, but this still has the classic flat bolt and Type IV slide.

[shadycon]

Very nice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GK

[wmmwraghd]

The two rivet hand guard and flat bolt is correct for a 5,70x,xxx. That was in the back edge of the window of those two production changes. There was concurrent usage of those two at the very beginning of the 5.7's Leave it alone.

[imarangemaster]

[imarangemaster]

Well, I got a chance to shoot it today during daylight, instead of dusk. Found out it was shooting low because I had the slide all the way down below the 100/150 setting. Set it on 100/150, and reset the rear sight index in the middle of the scale. Shot 5 rounds leaning across the hood of my jeep. WOW! the group was under 2 inches (not shooting from a rest) and the center of group was about 1 1/4" above POA, which should be dead on at 150 yards. I did not adjust anything. I am sure from a real rest, I can cut the group in half at least. No adjustments needed! I am a happy man!

[imarangemaster]

The two rivet hand guard and flat bolt is correct for a 5,70x,xxx. That was in the back edge of the window of those two production changes. There was concurrent usage of those two at the very beginning of the 5.7's Leave it alone.

Getting grief on a different forum where someone "knowledgeable" swears I could not have a two rivet handguard, (he says they switched to using 4 rivet in 4-44, so it must be wrong!) even though everything else is correct, it is a transitional period, and there are other similar examples exist. Ugh! Heck, I thought I was buying a shooter with a cut off Type III band when it was first described to me, and I was happy with the price then! Oh well, whatever! I value the expert opinions here, much more than the more "commercial" boards.

[deldriver]

At least according to the books, the bullnose hand guard was used in early production. It could have been used later considering weird things happened along the way. There, to me anyway, seems like a chance it could have gotten the two rivet non-bullnose hand guard or maybe the four rivet. I for sure though wouldn't worry about it as you have a very neat Winchester M1 carbine.

[DaveHH]

If you get in touch with the right people, they can tell you the exact day that your carbine was built since Winchester tracked this information. I have an almost mirror image carbine to yours, a 5.6 that was made in Mar of 44. This period of assembly has a wide range of possible configurations with flip sights being built alongside type 3s and oilhole trigger housings being used alongside regulars. It is absolutely possible that the two rivet handguard was original to the weapon. My 5.6 is considered to be in original configuration based on the AU recoil plate which was integrated from Underwood (5,000) in 11-43 and was found on another mirror image 5.6 in the CC data base built at almost the same time as mine. The only non-Winchester part on either carbine.

As far as getting flak from the other forum: Get to know the people who know what they are doing, look at examples and forget what some experts tell you. Most are just quoting from some pamphlet that is about as useful as a Chinese menu. There are a lot of similar correct Winchesters in this period because part swappers didn't bother when they saw the adjustable sight thinking them to be rebuilds.