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Thread: Gearing up to shoot my carbines again and have some questions.....

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  1. #1
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    Gearing up to shoot my carbines again and have some questions.....

    As some of you may know, last winter I cleaned up the two carbines I have and a lot of you helped me with some things. Especially the sizes of springs and all that. There were a couple of other issues that I got fixed too thanks to your help. A sticky flip safety on the inland was one. And imarangemaster sent me a bolt for the stock that helped because mine was all stripped.

    So, I thank you guys TONS!!!!

    I want to take mine and shoot them but I also want to make sure they are safe. My kids are starting to shoot now and they might want to try one out.

    So, I do have an older ex marine gunsmith I could take them to. Or, I was thinking I could get my own headspace gauge. I have shot them before and they seem fine, but I am just wanting to exercise some due dilligence. I didn't get mine from the CMPicon.

    Would the headspace be basically the most critical for safety? And if so, what gauge do you all recommend? Can I just buy a no go and see if they close on it or not?

    Should I bite the bullet and get Kuhnhousens (however you spell it) book and does he go through this?

    Is this what I should get? I'm assuming yes. Half way down the page is the .30 carbine.
    http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...prod40876.aspx


    Also, I have two mags that I have springs that are 5-1/4". Or is it 5-3/4". Whatever the "right" length is, I have two of them. Is it 5-3/4"? BUT, I have several other mags with worn out springs and for some reason I had a hard time finding mag springs when I looked over the winter. Anybody have a good source for them?


    Thank you all again for your input and help. I really appreciate it.

    standard products


    inland
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    Legacy Member imarangemaster's Avatar
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    Nice carbines, ABPOS! The CMPicon technical forum has very goof instructions on how to use headspace gauges, though if I remember correctly, they use 30-06 as an example. As for mag springs, Wolffe Springs has replacements. Good luck.

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    Legacy Member Bruce McAskill's Avatar
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    If you have been shooting your carbines last fall or so and have not had problems with your carbines then you will not have any issue with head space now. Head space problems do not suddenly appear they happen slowly but you will notice problems before hand. One of the easiest ways is to check the primer on a fired case. If it looks normal and flush with the bottom of the case then your OK but if the primer is starting to back out of the pocket then you should check the head space. Many times a new bolt will take case of the head space problem.

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    Legacy Member jimb16's Avatar
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    Disassemble the bolt and reinstall it in the carbine. Put some masking tape on the base of a cartridge and see if the bolt closes easily. Although this is not a definative test, a bolt that closes easily is an indication that the HS needs to be checked. If the bolt does not close easily or simply doesn't close completely, I wouldn't worry.
    When they tell you to behave, they always forget to specify whether to behave well or badly!

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    Thread Starter
    There's one hang up I have, I don't have a bolt disassembly tool any longer. I don't know what happened to it. The thing broke. I heard you can get replacement parts for them.

    When you use a gauge, do you need to break the bolt down? Anybody got a good way of doing it without the tool? And without a vice?

    I have shot them in the past. But I've never got them to run 100%. Although I don't think it's indicative of being unsafe. They just jammed regularly. Stovepipes, etc.

    How has the availability of ammo been? I haven't really checked. I have 4 boxes and that's it. Booohooooo.

    But I'm just trying to cross my T's and dot my I's if my kids shoot them. For some reason I'm really nervous about it. One thing that makes me nervous is that the way the bolt fits into the recesses on my standard products is so much more sloppier than the inland. Like the distance between the bolt and the receiver. The inland is nice and uniform and close and the standard is sort of, well a little more, not uniform. I guess I always wonder if it is out of spec. Plus the standard products receiver has been drilled and tapped. And I guess that always makes me wonder if it could fail or crack or something. But I could just not let them shoot that one and only shoot the inland.

    Anybody know off the top of their heads what the paratroopers serial number ranges are? This inland is 269,XXX. Seems like a low number.

    thank you imarangemaster. They are nice. Especially that inland. That sling is WWII also. At least from what I learned on here I think it is.
    Last edited by ABPOS; 08-21-2013 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABPOS View Post
    When you use a gauge, do you need to break the bolt down? Anybody got a good way of doing it without the tool? And without a vice?
    The Forster brand headspace gages do not require you to disassemble the bolt. Just remove the slide and the trigger housing from the receiver, put the gage in the chamber and slide the bolt GENTLY forward against the gage. If it is a 'go' gage the bolt should rotate closed without resistance. If it is a 'Field' gage the bolt should not rotate into battery. There really isn't much use in the 'no-go' gage except to tell if your headspace is within the factory new specification. As long as it closes on 'go' and won't close on 'field' you are golden and, all other things being sound and right, it is safe to shoot with proper ammunition. Make sure the chamber is clean and DO NOT try to force the bolt forward into battery - you can damage the gage and/or the chamber throat.

    Added: When checking headspace, also make sure the bolt face is clean and lightly oiled.

    Re your bolt disassembly tool, I assume it was the pawl (flat thing that rotates) tip that broke on your tool since that is the weak link in that tool. You can buy a brand new USGI replacement pawl on e-bay right now for $12.00 shipped. You can't beat that with the tools going for about $50 min.

    Hope this helps you out. Good luck and good shooting. ChipS
    Last edited by ChipS; 08-21-2013 at 08:27 PM.

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    Legacy Member Bruce McAskill's Avatar
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    If your getting stove pipes its not a head space problem. Most likely an extractor problem or a recoil spring being too weak. Make sure the extractor is clean and no build up under the lip of the extractor and that they are not chipped or broken. If clean and OK then lube the extractor plunger and spring. A bit of grease on any surface something slides on along with a clean chamber. Make sure the recoil springs are about 10 and 1/4 inches long. If not and they are short replace them.

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    ABPOS, IM me. I'll lend you my bolt tool.

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABPOS View Post
    Should I bite the bullet and get Kuhnhousens (however you spell it) book and does he go through this?

    Yes and Yes.
    Kuhnhausen's book is valuable for the general learning effect as to how the carbine functions, so that if you have problems, you also have a better idea of the likely cause. Also dimensions of critical parts, to check if something is worn to the point of uselessness. And for the detailed explanation of safety aspects, such as slam-fire and out-of-battery fire.

    ---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill View Post
    If your getting stove pipes its not a head space problem.

    I can confirm that from personal experience. The extractor was chipped on my carbine. Replacing it cured the fault.

    Well almost.

    Something was amiss that I have not seen mentioned elsewhere. The stock was warped to the extent that the operating rod was rubbing on the wood. The resulting braking effect was also preventing a reliable bolt closure. So remove the barrelled system and look for rubbing marks on the wood, and if there are any, make the necessary corrections.

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    Legacy Member DaveHH's Avatar
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    You can buy the Forster field guage at Midway

    I finally bought a Field and Go just to see how my carbines looked. As mentioned, you do not need to disassemble the bolt and they work perfectly. I was surprise by how far from closing on a field my guns displayed. All are fresh and have a lot of life left in them. The stovepiping and poor operation is almost always what Bruce said, a weak recoil or slide spring. This is the only Wolf spring that I would use and using one solved all problems in my CMPicon SG NPM. Beyond that, the Wolf spring kits are just a bag of industrial springs that happen to closely match the original pieces. I could get NONE to fit or work beyond the slide spring. Also, the carbine does not require stronger springs, just good springs. With this in mind, I would seek a new spring from Ray Metka or Orion 7 and save the money you would have spent buying Wolf springs. If you shoot reloads, pay attention to OAL as a slightly too long cartridge can drag at the bullet tip on the inside of the magazine and cause feeding problems.

    Gauge....not guage

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