What's a good group?

[gatorwade]

I have 2 carbines, Underwood and IBM, both 1943 according to the numbers. They have the usual post war redo stuff. They look and function excellently. I am shooting them at 50 yard targets off a bench, front pedestal and rear bag. The only problem is my 70 year old eyes. My best 5 round groups have been between 1.25" and 1.5".
My question is...what does a really accurate specimen shoot with a great guy on the trigger and sights?
I have been shooting them for years and have a nice bucket of empty brass. Wondering if it would be worthwhile to try reloads. Haven't done that because I laid in lots of factory rounds before the current situation happened. So far the early LC rounds do best. but a local guy sold me some handloads that printed 1.5" as well. Other factory loads have given best groups between 1.5" and 2". A lot of my tries are over 2" however.
For just fun shooting the old carbines are my favorite rifle. And I wouldn't change a thing on my warbabies. Just wondering what a really fresh bore would do.

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[Patrick Chadwick]

My best 5 round groups have been between 1.25" and 1.5". My question is...what does a really accurate specimen shoot with a great guy on the trigger and sights?

From my limited but competitive experience, that is about as good as you're going to get with a carbine in original configuration. In fact, it sounds as if your carbine may well be "a really accurate specimen shoot with a great guy on the trigger and sights".

Don't fiddle with it. Enjoy it.

[browningautorifle]

1.25 and 1.5 sounds good. Don't need anything better. After all it isn't a sniper rifle...or a match gun...

[INLAND44]

1.5" at 50 yds is great by any shooter with an unmodified M1 Carbine. The bore in your carbine is fine. When looking down the barrel, the rifling is not very distinct even on a new barrel - about the same as a 1911 barrel. Speaking from the standpoint of one almost your age, I'd say your eyes are pretty damn good too!
Now, the carbines were tested at 25 yds and 100 yds for acceptability. The acceptable impact area on the 100 yd target was the aiming point and higher - basically a 16" wide X 12" high rectangle with the point of aim at the bottom center. The perfect shot at 100 yds would be 6" high on the center line. This is with the adjustable sight down on '1.5-1'. So, at 50 yds, about 3" high would be about right, and about 1.5" high at 25 yds. Anyway, your 1.5" group at 50 translates to a 3" group at 100. Now imagine that 3" group in the center of the 12"X16" 'acceptable' rectangle; that is excellent shooting!

[browningautorifle]

Well put...

[Bruce McAskill]

Reloading can improve accuracy in a carbine. Most often using a good soft point bullet will improve it over a ball bullet. Any of the major makers of reloading bullets like Sierra or Hornady and Speer offer a good soft point bullet.

[imarangemaster]

Congrats, that is a good group. The only Carbine I have ever had that did better was an unmessed with Winchester I had in the 1980s. It would do 2" at 100 yards from a rest with 110 FMJ Remington. Of course my eyes were MUCH better then, too!

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

A Pepsi can is 2 5/8" wide. I usually hit 9 out of 10 at 100 yards with FMJ. Granted some hit bottom or top ends so a bit taller. I'm pleased with 3" to 4" groups at that range.

[gatorwade]

Thanks for the comments on carbine accuracy. It is good to learn that my warbabies are GTG.
When I decided to find an M1 Carbine I devoured this forum for information for months It was mental overload. Couldn't absorb what some of you have spent a lifetime learning. But came away from the immersion in carbine-ology with at least a basic idea of what to look for. So when I came upon the Underwood and IBM at gun shows they looked better than many others I had seen.
So thanks to all of you who so generously share your knowledge of this arcane relic from the past. I share your appreciation for this sweet shooting, versatile firearm.
Pepsi cans at 100 yards? Wow. That might be setting the bar pretty high. But if you say it is possible, I will have to give it a go. If I can even sight a pepsi can at that range, but can't make 'em dance, I will have to put some carbine dies on my shopping list.
Semper Fi..

[DaveHH]

I believe that there is a wide range of acceptable accuracy with carbines. I believe that some will shoot pretty good 1-2" groups at 100 yds, but far more are in the 2-4" range.
Here's my best shooter a NPM with IBM barrel. The 9 ring hit is my bad shooting. This at 100 yds using reloads w/Rem FMJ. The SR-1 has a 3 1/4" 10 ring, so Jim's shooting would easily hold the 10 ring on an SR-1. People should really give their carbines a workout at 100 yds. I'd bet that after some practice they could surprise themselves. I think that the sights, trigger and light weight just make people think that they can't shoot well. And yes, I can't see squat either.