Sporterized No.4 T value ??

[pastprime]

I saw a sporterized and damaged No.4 T today. In addition to the stock being altered beyond repair the bolt handle has been broken off and a piece of flat metal brazed on in its place. Front sight is there but no "ears" (sorry I don't know the correct term yet). Rifling looks very good viewed without a strong light. I did not see any pitting. It did have the part that the front of a scope mount would attach to in place.

I have no idea what these are worth but considered making an offer for what is essentially a barreled action. I'm a sucker for old military rifles that need a little TLC but have only done US issue so far.

So, a few questions:

1. What would a fair price be as described?
2. Are enough parts available to do a decent restoration?
3. Would the price of said parts be more than the finished rifle would be worth?
4. What does an original No.4 T sell for?

I wish I knew more about these but obviously I don't so any other information would be appreciated. I enjoy a challenge but not "mission impossible"...

Hank

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[harry mac]

All the parts you need are available, but wheter or not it's worth it, only you can decide. What you will end up with will be a refurbished rifle. If I was to be unkind I'd call it a bitser; but if you were to get the bolt properly matched and renumbered then that would go some way to increasing its value. The biggest expense will be the scope and mount, all the other bits can be picked up quite reasonably, even if you have to resort to e-bay.
HM.

[pastprime]

All the parts you need are available, but wheter or not it's worth it, only you can decide. What you will end up with will be a refurbished rifle. If I was to be unkind I'd call it a bitser; but if you were to get the bolt properly matched and renumbered then that would go some way to increasing its value. The biggest expense will be the scope and mount, all the other bits can be picked up quite reasonably, even if you have to resort to e-bay.
HM.

Thanks for the information. I've done some pricing this afternoon and seems that it would not be a winner. Too many things not found or more expensive than I thought. I'd better stick to something I'm more familiar with.
Hank

[ssj]

Depends on what you pay, I'd buy it if the action still worked ie not worn out etc...like $50~$100, yeah sure, a bit of history. Put up some pics. Beware there are forgeries about so it may not be genuine.

Someone said "bitsa" considering these would have been maintained and maybe FTR'd, well they are going to have a lot of bits changed "officially" so replacing with your own sourced, correct pieces personally I cant see there is a difference. Sure its not going to be worth $5k or something as a mint original, but I'd be proud to own such a gun and I'd shoot it here in NZ in memory of those fallen.

PS I think you should be able to pick up all the parts with patience, I'd love a project like this myself.

[pastprime]

If I could get it for $100 or less, I would be more tempted but he wants $200. I'm sure he would take less but don't know how much. I'm still looking at the parts availability but looks like I'd have around $600- $800 in a completed rifle as best I can count all the small parts and hardware. And, without the scope. I know folks who are fans of the Enfield's have their sources for parts. I buy and trade with certain people myself that I know deal in US military rifles. I don't have "sources" for these parts so I would have to first find them and then probably pay retail since I don't have any trading items. I may go back in a couple days with some cash. If it was a little nicer, I'd consider buying it and reselling to someone who would restore it. It does look pretty rough. But, I also like to see old military rifles kept shooting if possible. Not sure about all the markings and did not have a camera with me today. I'll have to sleep on this one.

Hank

[Peter Laidler]

Every No4 or No4T that came into an Armourers shop in its life and left the Armourers shop was a bitza thereafter according to some of those on this site. So on that basis, probably every one in the world is a bitza. After all, they only ever went into our shops because they needed to! We replaced butts and telescopes and torn sling loops and stripped screws every day of the week for heavens sake!

If it's cheap, then get it and use it as a 5 year restoration project. Is it a bitza thereafter? Is a restored MGB GT or Triumph TR a Bitza. Of course it's not. What you're looking at is no more than replacing the worn out trim in the car. The FUN part is collecting the other parts to make it a complete CES.

If it's totally worn out, then just use it occasionally and treasure it as a well worn old family friend with a bit of history - like the family MGB GT or Triumph

Brackets..... Readily available. Telescopes....... get one while you can. Bolts, cheap. Get it set up correctly and fitted PROPERLY, then numbered........ what's the difference between Brian at BDL doing it PROPERLY and me doing it properly in the Armourers shop. GET IT. THEY ONLY MADE 26,000 AND AIN'T MAKIN NO MORE!

[Roger Payne]

I agree entirely with PL. Although it may be that there is a price differential between here in the UK & in the US. At the kind of price the OP mentions once restored I would still regard it very much as a bargain if it were for sale over here. I guess if you're interested in it, & it is a feasible restoration project, & if you won't be out of pocket on its local value by the time it is done, then I'd go for it.

ATB.

[Peter Laidler]

And remember this...................... You might be out of pocket today, but you can be rest assured, as sure as god made little green apples, that you won't be out of pocked in a years time, believe me! There was a great man on this forum once who used to say '..........everything is cheap - yesterday'!

As for the telescope....... Read a short article about buying one somewhere else on this forum.

[pastprime]

I sent an offer this afternoon and he should let me know later today or tomorrow morning. If I get it, at least I can clean it a bit and probably get a bolt fitted. Not sure what is involved with the numbering of a bolt. Then if I decide to not do any more, someone else will have a better starting point and I will know a little more about Enfield's.

[gsimmons]

Give Brian Dick at BDL Ltd in SC a call when you get it. I'm sure he can help you. bdlltd.com