+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Peter, 1945 LB No.4 Mk1* with no serial number

Click here to increase the font size Click here to reduce the font size
  1. #1
    Advisory Panel breakeyp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Last On
    Yesterday @ 03:29 PM
    Location
    near Detroit Michigan
    Age
    77
    Posts
    963
    Real Name
    Paul Breakey
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    04:11 PM

    Peter, 1945 LB No.4 Mk1* with no serial number

    I found this anomaly at a local show this weekend. Canadianicon Long Branch 1945 production with no serial numbers on socket or forend. The barrel has typical production markings and no serial number as would be expected on a Canadian No.4. The foreend has a Maltese cross marking I have noted on Canadian manufactured sniper rifles. The trigger guard assy is Savage made and marked with C^ marking on trigger guard bow. Indicates that it is one of the Savage parts sent to Long Branch after the Savage contract closed. The rear sight is micrometer adjustable marked B with a lozenge broad arrow marking.

    Possibilities exist that it might have been set aside for the sniper program and then lost in the system. I think Peter will agree that it should not have left the plant without a serial number. Maybe someone had a very big lunch pail.

    Another Lee Enfield mystery. Comments?

    Trigger guard is Savage marked with C broad arrow on trigger guard bow indicating transfer to LB after the Savage contract closed. Adjustable rear sight is B code with lozenge broad arrow marking.
    Information
    Warning: This is a relatively older thread
    This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.
    Last edited by breakeyp; 12-03-2013 at 04:57 PM.

  2. The Following 4 Members Say Thank You to breakeyp For This Useful Post:


  3. # ADS
    Friends and Sponsors
    Join Date
    October 2006
    Location
    Milsurps.Com
    Age
    2010
    Posts
    All Threads
    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #2
    Advisory Panel
    Roger Payne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last On
    03-20-2024 @ 06:05 AM
    Location
    Sutton Coldfield, UK.
    Posts
    3,429
    Real Name
    Roger Payne
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    08:11 PM
    Interesting, & consistent with the belief that by the time the later batches of LB snipers were put together the serials were left till the end of the production/conversion process so that they were serialled in batches. As you say, perhaps selected for conversion, lost to the system somehow, & in the process skipping the serial numbering process?

    ATB

  5. The Following 6 Members Say Thank You to Roger Payne For This Useful Post:


  6. Avoid Ads - Become a Contributing Member - Click HERE
  7. #3
    Advisory Panel
    Peter Laidler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Last On
    03-24-2024 @ 09:52 AM
    Location
    Abingdon, Oxfordshire. The home of MG Cars
    Posts
    16,507
    Real Name
    Peter Laidler
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    10:11 PM
    There will be other explanations, such as it was taken from the line to be used as a trial or sample elsewhere etc etc but the gist of the sniper explanation is probably correct. And it is correct that after the H&H overseer went to LB to production line the sniper rifle programme - like they had operating at H&H proper, they took known quality production, probably from one particular line over a single month or so (just guessing here of course) from the LB line and used those. Much like just taking the constant/known/reliable quality rifles from BSA.

    Back to that rifle though. There is a small 05 number on the butt socket. This is typical of what we do during trials and tests. Especially if it's something that's been taken off the production line part way and before numbering becxause that way, it is numbered, albeit only in house.

    Interesting

  8. The Following 5 Members Say Thank You to Peter Laidler For This Useful Post:


  9. #4
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    03-16-2024 @ 12:24 PM
    Location
    out there
    Posts
    1,820
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:11 PM
    1945 and 195x dated Long Branch actions which were never serialized nor assembled are common in Canadaicon.

    They were available within the system as replacement actions.

    I have also seen 1 1941 dated action which was similarly complete, finished, but not serialized.

    This was common within the Canadian RCEME system to Inglis High Powers, C1 /C2 rifles, and if others are to be believed, Inglis Bren MkII's

  10. #5
    Legacy Member 5thBatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Last On
    02-21-2024 @ 01:40 PM
    Location
    Zombie Town, now with a H
    Posts
    774
    Local Date
    03-29-2024
    Local Time
    09:11 AM
    Dont forget about "lunchbox specials" as another possibility.

  11. #6
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last On
    03-16-2024 @ 12:24 PM
    Location
    out there
    Posts
    1,820
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    02:11 PM
    I believe the 2 small characters stamped to be the Long Branch equivalent of "steel batch" coding.

    2 or 3 characters are found on all? Long Branch actions in that area from about mid '42 on by markings and serial number.

  12. The Following 3 Members Say Thank You to Lee Enfield For This Useful Post:


  13. #7
    Advisory Panel
    Roger Payne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Last On
    03-20-2024 @ 06:05 AM
    Location
    Sutton Coldfield, UK.
    Posts
    3,429
    Real Name
    Roger Payne
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    08:11 PM
    Hmmm, if it's a SBN & the receiver was taken from the same run of production as other rifles destined for sniper conversion, might we expect to see the same batch number on 90L LB 4T's ??

    I must check my two tomorrow.....

    ATB

  14. #8
    Advisory Panel Surpmil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Last On
    @
    Location
    West side
    Posts
    4,651
    Local Date
    03-28-2024
    Local Time
    01:11 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by 5thBatt View Post
    Dont forget about "lunchbox specials" as another possibility.
    And the numerous rifles made up as presentations and retirement gifts.

    And at the risk of being repetitive, I have a partially converted to T specs 1943 LB with no SN. Probably another one put together later as it has a 1944 barrel.
    “There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”

    Edward Bernays, 1928

    Much changes, much remains the same.

  15. Thank You to Surpmil For This Useful Post:


+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Receiver drawing number consisten with Serial Number
    By cooterboro in forum M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-17-2012, 06:18 PM
  2. 1945 Armourers Training Notes (Donated by Peter Laidler)
    By Badger in forum The Lee Enfield Knowledge Library Collectors Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-09-2009, 11:15 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Raven Rocks