K98k with mismatched stock - likely history and value?

[Jack71]

I originally posted this in someone else's thread, but realized that I should leave that thread to the OP's questions.

I have a BNZ 4 (Steyr 1944) rifle that I bought from a relative. He bought it from a pawn shop. He's a gun collector, so the pawn shop operator tips him off when he gets something interesting in stock. There is no documentation with the rifle, and we don't know any more about it than we've been able to figure out online. Neither my relative nor I are Mauser experts.

The bolt, barrel and barrel bands all match.
The stock, handguard, buttplate and trigger guard/magazine floorplate all match.
However, those two sets of parts do not match each other.

The stock is solid walnut. Visible on the right side are an H and two eagles (see photos). On the left side are a bunch of small dents. On the bottom is either a W or an M. I think it's a W. The buttplate and trigger guard/floorplate are grayish and mottled (phosphate finish?). There is no duffel cut.

The barrel, receiver and bolt are blued. There are various markings including an eagle on the left side. See pictures for markings.

There is no force matching and the rifle has no import marks. When the rifle came to me, it had the cleaning rod and one of the two capture screws. It was missing the sight hood and the other capture screw. I bought an aftermarket capture screw and sight hood, which are now on the rifle and look correct to me.

The stock has not been sanded. It has been washed with warm soapy water.

The bore looks good. I've shot the rifle. It shoots well and is accurate.

My questions:

What's the most likely way this rifle got to the U.S.?
- GI bringback: but don't these usually have non-matching bolts? My bolt matches.
- Import shortly after WWII? Were import marks rare then or common? My rifle has no import marks.
- Russian capture? I don't see how (no electropenciled force matches, no X, no red varnish), but just listing it as a possibility.

How did this stock most likely end up on this rifle? I talked with someone knowledgeable about Mausers who speculated that it was put on during the war by a German armorer. But someone here in the other thread said that is unlikely.

About how much is this worth?

Thanks - here are pictures. The rifle does have what I believe is the original cleaning rod, in the same general condition as the rest of the rifle. I just forgot to put it back in before I took the pictures. Jack

Information

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[jmoore]

No way of telling how these parts came together. Could be any number of explanations. Enjoy it as is, especially as it shoots well.

[Aragorn243]

Any guesses on how it got to be the way it is now is just a guess. As for value, no matter how you look at it it is mismatched so it is not highly collectible. It is not an RC and is not import marked so should be worth a bit more than an import marked RC which are pushing $400 these days. You could probably get $300 for it very easily, find the right buyer and top end might be $600.

[Jack71]

Thanks, guys. Any thoughts about the stock? When and where it may have been made? Someone else told me it was older than 1944.

Would I lose much value if I refinished the stock? I doubt I will anyway, because I think it looks pretty good as it is and I don't want to lose the stampings. I'm just curious.

[Aragorn243]

Refinishing the stock depends on what you call refinishing and what someone else calls refinishing. For some guys, refinishing means altering the existing original finish in any manner, including cleaning. For others it is doing something that is not original to the rifle, varnish, tung oil, sanding, etc. It seems for the majority, light cleaning and new oil does not affect how they feel about the rifle as it is considered maintenance, not refinishing.

I like my rifles to look the way they were supposed to look while in service. When in service they were maintained. Therefore they would not have rust, dirt or oil grime all over them. I have deep cleaned a few stocks that were in really bad shape but usually I'll just wipe them down with BLO and be done with it. I've also removed finishes that were not original to the rifles.

Yours looks like all it needs is a wipe down.

[Patrick Chadwick]

For some guys, refinishing means altering the existing original finish in any manner, including cleaning. For others it is doing something that is not original to the rifle, varnish, tung oil, sanding, etc. It seems for the majority, light cleaning and new oil does not affect how they feel about the rifle as it is considered maintenance, not refinishing.

"refinishing means altering the existing original finish in any manner, including cleaning."

I have a very simple attitude to all this: Proper maintenance would have been applied during its service life, so catching up on maybe decades of neglected maintenance is proper treatment. Dirt is NOT original. Fossilized grease is NOT original.

But maintenance is aimed at keeping a service rifle service-able. So all the parts swapping, forced matching etc. that goes on in the name of "restoring it to its original condition", and has nothing to do with its service-ability, is a falsification that quickly leads down the slippery slope to outright faking.

I like my rifles to look the way they were supposed to look while in service. When in service they were maintained. Therefore they would not have rust, dirt or oil grime all over them. I have deep cleaned a few stocks that were in really bad shape but usually I'll just wipe them down with BLO and be done with it. I've also removed finishes that were not original to the rifles.

100% agreement there

[Jack71]

Thanks - and, when I got the rifle, I shot it, then I took it apart, washed the stock with warm soapy water, then rubbed raw linseed oil into it by hand. So by some definitions, maybe it's been refinished, but I agree, I see that as maintenance. I'm just wondering how much value it actually has to lose even if Bubba got his hands on it (ie: remove current finish, sand it smooth, put on Minwax Gunstock and Helmsman spar urethane - or something like that), considering that it doesn't match the gun anyway.

[Aragorn243]

Opinion:

Sanding will dramatically harm it's value if it is not done exceedingly sparingly and carefully. Even if it does not match, most people prefer all the markings, etc and if it isn't blended well, you can tell it's been sanded. Color matching also becomes an issue. A sanded part will be a different color than a non-sanded part.

I have sanded stocks, mainly because someone got a hold of it before me and sanded it already, usually across the grain. Cross grained sanding is a pet peeve of mine and I can't stand it. I'll lightly sand it until the cross grain sanding is gone. I don't try to remove dents that way. You can try steaming dents and that actually works well with some stocks but not so well with others.

Any non-original finish will also harm it's value. Not always but in general. Guys looking to buy these types of rifles want a certain "look". If that look isn't there they will bypass the gun and look elsewhere. A Bubba might look at it and think it's great and buy it but the numbers of bubbas wanting a milsurp are a lot fewer than the "collectors". A guy like me will love the gun but expect to get it at a bargain because I'll have to take the time to strip off the finish and "restore" it to natural. That's how I can afford a lot of the rifles I have. I also love restoring old beat up or bubba'd rifles.

All that being said, it's your rifle. Any finish applied to it can most likely be removed later. Sanding however can't be reversed.

[Jack71]

Thanks. It's partly an academic question. I'm not planning to sand it ... the temptation isn't there, because I wouldn't want to lose the markings on one side, and I know the color wouldn't match if I did the other side. I'm just curious, because I always have a voice in the back of my head telling me doing something like that to a milsurp will reduce value by 75% or something extreme, but thinking about it, it's probably more like 10% in this case.

Is there any way to tell manufacturer and date range of the stock, based on the markings, shape of the buttplate etc? Not visible in the photos is either a W or M ... I think a W ... stamped on the bottom of the stock near the trigger.

[Johnny Peppers]

It was very common to cut the stocks back to a "sporter" length to make a hunting rifle. This could very well be what happened to your rifle, and in later years the owner decided to put it back in original configuration. It has happened many time before.