Fake Cartouche?

[scubatke]

Greetings and Happy New Year!

I was at a gun show late last year and came across a carbine with the cartouche below. I'm a long way from knowing anything about anything and I wanted to get the opinion of some forum members as to whether this cartouche is legit or not. I will save my opinion so as not to throw any possible bias into the responses. Unfortunately, I didn't write down any information on the weapon this was on.

Attachment 48630

I also have the same question regarding an M1 Garand that I will post in that forum.
Link: Fake Garand Cartouche?

Thanks!

Information

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[NRA]

I am no expert but it looks wrong to me

[oldgrunt]

Fake. Cannon contour is wrong, and some other things. Looks very fresh and newly struck as well.

[jimb16]

Do fakes come any worse?

[Hercules Powder]

Looks more like a caricature of an acceptance stamp

[scubatke]

I thought this was a pretty obvious example. I don't know the correct terminology for the various parts of a cannon but the part on the back end of both cannons look mis-shaped and incorrectly sized; the mounting/elevation lugs (?) and the overall proportion on the left cannon look wrong and the flame on top isn't close to the correct shape.

Anyone agree?

See anything else specific?

[INLAND44]

All of the crossed-cannon Ordnance marks are drawn up in carbine reference books. I don't have any books or much experience in judging these marks, but it is true that the various makers made their own stamps that were approved by the Ordnance Dep't., and they did have differences.
You have to judge any markings in the context of overall stock condition. A mark like that one, if authentic, could only be found on a mint stock that had never been sanded and probably was unissued. So if you find it on a sanded stock with other, fainter, markings, it would immediately be suspect even if it were stamped with an original die correct for the prime contractor. In addition to design, diameter and location on the stock are critical.
Beyond that, I think anyone would have to know the stock origin and condition before judging that mark unless they can tell by the picture furnished that it could not have appeared on any U.S. Carbine.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Even if it were a perfectly shaped cartouche, the giveaway is that the impression has been made on top of an old finish on an old stock - note how in the "southwest" and "southeast" areas (the ends of the cannons) the surface has cracked under the stamp, like an antique oil painting.

[sakorick]

That one is real bad.....really bad. Regards, Ruck.