1873 Trapdoor what is wrong with it although I like it

[Ben Cartwright]

This past weekend I got talked into buying a 1873 Trapdoor rifle to help a gentleman at our club who is dying of kidney disease. It had supposedly looked up the value of the rifle on the net and felt it should be worth $800. I wanted to help but was only going to pay what I thought was a fair and reasonable price for it.
I was told by the guy selling it for him (he is in a nursing home) that his father had had it refinished about 20-25 years ago. Going there I didn’t know if they had touched the metal or not.
Looking at it I could see that the metal was all original, not reblued. Not much case color left on the flip up part of the receiver although there is some on the tang. The refinish of the stock looked nice BUT they lost the cartouche on the side of the stock but the Circle P is barely there.
The sideplate was either buffed a long time ago or rubbed a lot or had a light stamping, the US is half there and the Springfield can only be made for the last couple letters ELD but you have to look close.
The Serial Number is 7964
The bayonet is original and period.
The cleaning rod doesn’t have any rings at the base of it.
The rear sight is Buffington, wonder if I should change it for the correct sight?
I am not sure the age of the shoulder strap, is it original?
The bore was black but is starting to clean up, seems to be some sort of old grease or cosmoline in there, the patches continue to come out brown, but the rifling looks strong.

With all the problems I offered $400 for rifle and bayonet and we settled on $450

Information

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[RT Ellis]

Based on that serial number it will take a great deal more than a change in rear sight to bring this piece to "Correct" configuration. The breech block, hammer, and stock are the most obvious later patterns not correct to the serial number. The cleaning rod end looks odd as well, and appears to have been pushed too far into the channel, as normally when properly seated the cleaning rod tip will be closely alligned with the muzzle. The stock does appear to have been sanded and refinished as the metal parts appear slighly elevated. If the barrel is marked with V, P, (eagle head), P in vertical order near the receiver the barrel is a replacement as well.

The sling is a commercial product and not military at all.

There is nothing "wrong" about the rifle, as parts were replaced in rebuild, (and this piece does appear to have been through rebuild) and parts replaced by useing units. The receiver does provide an opportunity to restore the rifle to original condition, but concidering the number of components that would have to be replaced of an earlier pattern that would be a pretty expensive project.

[Ben Cartwright]

The V, P and something are in a vertical stack on the side of the barrel near the receiver with a N on top of the barrel. The cleaning rod as seen in 6th picture is pretty much even with the end of the barrel, the other picture it is the angle that make it look to far in, but it doesn't have any rings on the base of it (opposite end from the slot end)
Sounds totally rebuilt, which is fine to me, I didn't buy it as a collector piece I bought it as a shooter to go with my repro Carbine. I am not planning to redo it at all. Plan to shoot it with BP sometimes and Trail Boss usually

I was told by a local dealer and Sharps shooter that the bayonet is correct, so that is something at least.

Do you think I over paid for it at $450 (with bayonet) ? I only wanted to pay $400 but got talked into $450 to help the owner at the end of his life. It may not have been a deal but I hope it is about where it should be

[mannparks]

At $450 you did great.
Cock the hammer back and make sure you are not missing another number on the ser#.

Charles

[Ben Cartwright]

Just checked, it is definitely 4 numbers. I figure the bayonet is worth about $100 so paid $350 for the gun. I put a 45/70 snap cap in it and the trigger works great. Since I can't get to the range until this weekend, I thought to put a case with a primer in it (nothing else) and see if it pops when fired, can do that inside.

[Ben Cartwright]

Took it to the range yesterday, the first cartridge didn't want to go into the chamber more than halfway, the second I was able to force in and then it took some doing to close the trap.

I had cleaned the bore and chamber for about 2 hours of scrubbing. I was using 15 grains of Trail Boss to push a 300 gr bullet. It shot great! BUT the case wouldn't eject. I used a range rod to pop it out.

The last inch of the case by the rim was nice and smooth (the part of the chamber you could see from the breach) the next inch and a half for so looked like the surface of the moon. I took it to Santuri the gunsmith in N. Attleboro MA and he looked at it and the case and said the chamber was totally pitted with rust pits and is a wallhanger. He said I could ream it out but then it would be so loose that it would split cases shot in it. Although he did say if you used light enough loads they may not split, but would be worked quite a bit.

[Patrick Chadwick]

The last inch of the case by the rim was nice and smooth (the part of the chamber you could see from the breach) the next inch and a half for so looked like the surface of the moon.

What a pity! As a shooter it would have been a very good price. If you look at my contributions you will see that I have tackled (and shoot!) some pretty dire looking rifles, so it takes a lot before I declare a rifle to be hopeless, but I had the same problem recently on a sporterized Mauser M1871. Eventually I reluctantly faced up to reality and scrapped it - no use for shooting and no collector value.

[Ben Cartwright]

I am sitting here wondering, if the chamber were reamed out to get rid of the pits would that make it unsafe to shoot? Santuri did say that with light loads you might not split the cases. Since it is a wall hanger I should call him and ask him how much he would charge to do that and would it be safe to shoot that way.

[vintage hunter]

I don't know about that chamber reaming business, sounds an awful lot like something bubba would do. If it were mine I'd just rebarrel it.
Wait a minute, you said you had to force the round in the chamber, sounds like theres some sort of build up preventing it from entering freely. Just pits alone wouldn't prevent it from doing so. Before I did anything harsh like reaming I'd clean the chamber more.

[browningautorifle]

I'm with Vintage hunter...this could be a case of rust blisters or huge build up in the chamber. I'd make good and sure it was clean and I'm seeing actual pits before throwing in the towel. If you have to force a cartridge in, there's something in the way...