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Thread: Starting a STEN Mk V SBR in the US

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  1. #111
    Advisory Panel tiriaq's Avatar
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    An M3 cycles at about 6 rounds a second, a Sten about half again faster. PPSh maybe 2 1/2 times faster than an M3. Different desgn philosophies.

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  3. #112
    Legacy Member Vincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 17thairborne View Post
    I never imagined this project would be so informative to me. Rather than a "wow...nice project", you guys are creating a classroom where free discussion rules the day.
    Glad you see it that way, 17th. I was feeling bad for rambling on in you build thread.

    but the bolt moving forward before firing was always a bit "weird" to me.
    Yes, I know the feeling you're talking about. Both the M3 and the Sten are like that. The Sterling has a much better balanced feel.

    It looks like you're enjoying building your Sten. Give a Sterling some thought while the kits and semi-auto conversion parts are available. It's a little sweetheart. I am sure you would enjoy it.

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  5. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    An M3 cycles at about 6 rounds a second, a Sten about half again faster. PPSh maybe 2 1/2 times faster than an M3. Different design philosophies.
    With that rate of fire I suspect it would be very hard with the STEN to make is sound like an auto with repetitive trigger pulls in quick succession.

    ---------- Post added at 08:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Glad you see it that way, 17th. I was feeling bad for rambling on in you build thread.



    Yes, I know the feeling you're talking about. Both the M3 and the Sten are like that. The Sterling has a much better balanced feel.

    It looks like you're enjoying building your Sten. Give a Sterling some thought while the kits and semi-auto conversion parts are available. It's a little sweetheart. I am sure you would enjoy it.
    Wouldn't have it any other way. The more you guys add, the better it will be for us blokes building STENs. Any constructive comments, information or presumptions will all help. It's why I'm trying to be a little more detailed with the images and discussing the problems that I am having.

  6. #114
    Legacy Member Vincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    Another aspect of bolt weight that I have not seen mentioned in this thread with respect to traditional submachine guns is the affect on cyclic rate. The lighter the bolt, the higher the cyclic rate.
    It's the slow cyclic rate (heavy bolt) that makes guns like the Sten suitable for conversion to closed-bolt semi-auto only. Guns with light bolts are not as suitable for these conversions.

    The Sten, Sterling and Uzi all work very well when converted, even with the long barrel.. 16" to comply with BATFE. But it's better to pay the $200 for the SBR tax stamp if you are converting something like the Papasha. It needs the short barrel. That's really the only way the laws of physics and the land will work together.

    I have a F.M.A.E. PAF bolt. It's the Chileanicon copy of the Sterling. Some people here call it a "Speed bolt". The Mk4's ability to change bolts in a few seconds makes it excellent for demonstrating the higher cyclic rate of the lighter PAF bolt. You really notice the ROF change when you shoot one right after the other.

    BTW, bolt weight is only one of the things that can affect the cyclic rate. There are others.

  7. #115
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    Getting close to the weld. I need to ensure I position the ejector properly before welding.

    I'm going back to my problem with the slot for the ejector. You recall when the charging handle is moved up and forward it moves he block into the upper slot (safety), the bolt is moved forward and the rotation of the block puts a portion of the block over the grove where the ejector should be and the block will not move fully forward into its slot. I do not want contact between the two as that will damage the block or weaken the weld between the ejector and the tube. You CANNOT move the slot for the ejector, because if you do, the ejector will be in the wrong position when the block is moved forward to load a round.

    You could mill the upper safety slot a little lower than depicted on the tube's template, but that leaves less metal between the upper charging handle groove and the lower. I think it would make it too weak. I think the proper solution would be to move the location of the safety groove aft (away from the ejector) by about 5/16" Of course Newton said for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Moving the charging handle safety slot aft will make it all the harder to pull the block to the rear and into the slot because you are compressing the springs tighter. That tiny handle takes a lot of rearward tension to compress two springs. I do think this is the approved solution though.



    SInce my receiver tube is already milled, I have to work with the ejector. I filed the upper surface of the ejector thinner so that the block, when moved up and forward into the "safety" position would ride over the ejector with slight clearance. Here is the correction:



    Here is how it looks with the ejector installed and the block in the forward (charged) position. You can see the filed portion will allow for the block to move forward when in the safety position. My problem now is that I've filed the ejector down to it's original height. That was done by removing the scrap from the original tube where it was welded into the tube. Now I've created another problem; ( the photo below shows the ejector installed too high. In this position it will not contact the backof the 9mm case. It needs to be moved down into the block groove)I should have left a bit of scrap on the top so that it could be wedged into the slot and moved up/down to create the proper depth of seating so that the tip of the ejector rides in the block grove almost to the point where it contacts the block. If you do not do this, the tip of the ejector will not contact the back of an extracted/fired case and cause the lateral momentum to sling it out of the ejection port with the spring aided extractor. In the photo below, the ejector must move down quite a bit so that it will actually do its job. When I move it down into position, I no longer have anything to hold it onto the tube.

    I will purchase a stainless steel hemostat clamp, zip strip it to the front of the tube and clamp it to the ejector in the proper position so that I can tack weld it in the right place and use that to hold it into the proper position using the paper shims between the ejector and the grove in the block. If tacked properly, I can remove the hemostat and fully weld. When the hemostat arrives, I'll take a photo and post that.

    If anyone has any other ideas please let me know. Its very tricky to get the ejector to sit properly between the shims and in the grove when you use a file like Jack the Ripper


  8. #116
    Advisory Panel tiriaq's Avatar
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    Another option would be to just make another ejector, which would fit the slot in the casing, and interface correctly with the bolt.

  9. #117
    Legacy Member Vincent's Avatar
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    17th,

    Fighting the springs to get the charging handle into the “J” slot was too much effort for this old man. So I did the conversion on selector to make it safe or fire instead of R & A. It’s very simple. You just cut a semicircle out of the tripping lever for the selector to pass through. Let me know if you want the detailed instructions.

    I used some of the wife’s pottery clay to hold the ejector and a strip of beer can to shim it.

    ~V~

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  11. #118
    Legacy Member Vincent's Avatar
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    Attachment 52107

    You don't want the ejector to be flush with the outside of the tube. The weld will be stronger if it is sitting down in the slot. Remember the magazine well will be sliding over this. So the weld needs to be in the slot. If you get any above the slot, you will have to grind it off so it's flush with the tube.. or the magazine well will not go on.
    Last edited by Vincent; 04-19-2014 at 12:45 PM.

  12. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    You don't want the ejector to be flush with the outside of the tube. The weld will be stronger if it is sitting down in the slot. Remember the magazine well will be sliding over this. So the weld needs to be in the slot. If you get any above the slot, you will have to grind it off so it's flush with the tube.. or the magazine well will not go on.
    Yea...that's why i ground off the old tube so it could sit down a bit lower and receive some molten metal on top, thus binding it to the tube. I would then file the excess off to match the outer contour of the tube. I suppose I should have left just a bit on to wedge it in there, yet provide room for the weld. I did not know about the mag interference issue...thanks for calling it out!

    ---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    17th,Fighting the springs to get the charging handle into the “J” slot was too much effort for this old man. So I did the conversion on selector to make it safe or fire instead of R & A. It’s very simple. You just cut a semicircle out of the tripping lever for the selector to pass through. Let me know if you want the detailed instructions.

    I used some of the wife’s pottery clay to hold the ejector and a strip of beer can to shim it.

    ~V~
    I like both of those ideas. I'll get some pottery clay and thin metal for the shim. I was thinking of the selector conversion to a safety. IO adds instructions in their plans which accompany the "guts". If you would be so kind as to post photos of the mod that would be of great help to me and others.

    ---------- Post added at 01:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tiriaq View Post
    Another option would be to just make another ejector, which would fit the slot in the casing, and interface correctly with the bolt.
    That brings up another question:

    By filing the ejector as I have, will there be strength issues with the part? It seems since I left the front profile alone and made my ramp down to the lower profile with a rounded bevel instead of a right angle, I should minimize the reduction in the strength of the part and not create a structual weakness. I mean....jeesh...we're only talking about knocking out an empty case that's held behing a spring extractor on one end. SHould not be much force impacting the ejector. Or am I a worry wart?

  13. #120
    Legacy Member Vincent's Avatar
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    I will get a picture of the modified tripping lever and centering block up soon.

    Don''t worry about you're ejector. You could file more away and it would is still be larger than the ones I have. They are shorter and still work fine.

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