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Thread: Parker Hale M85 Serial Number Checks & Provenance on Manufacture (Records)

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  1. #271
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Promo,
    Don't remember being asked about this rifle as it is at the top of the list, but Parker Hale M85 serial number 00126F was built on the 13th April 1992 was sold to a Rick Wilson, and there is no further information on it in terms of sights fitted or its grouping.
    Thats it.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

  4. #272
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Boyd View Post
    Promo,
    Don't remember being asked about this rifle as it is at the top of the list, but Parker Hale M85 serial number 00126F was built on the 13th April 1992 was sold to a Rick Wilson, and there is no further information on it in terms of sights fitted or its grouping.
    Thats it.
    Thank you, this is great! Don't know where the difference to back then came from (OP quoted below):
    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Boyd View Post
    Simon,
    Rifle - 00126F No trace of that one, don't know why.

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  6. #273
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    May have been added to the top of the pile of the M85's as more books were put onto computer as I waded through them. It took me months, I'm now cross eyed
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

  7. #274
    Contributing Member Promo's Avatar
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    Glad I had asked then, I have this rifle a few years now and basically didn't want to re-ask since you had posted on it before and I didn't think this could had changed - but reading recent discussions on M82 serials I thought I'd nevertheless ask again on this serial!
    Not being from the UKicon, can anyone tell me whether Rick Wilson was/is a gun dealer, or a private individual?

  8. #275
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Sadly, not. He could have simply been an acquantaince of Roger Hale. Nothing more in the records.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

  9. #276
    Advisory Panel Nigel's Avatar
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    Gill
    Would I be right in thinking that if the prototype M85 used in the first sniper trials was serial number 00101F then s/n 00150F is the 50th production rifle and not the 150th/
    Nigel

  10. #277
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Nigel,

    I can confirm that three rifles went to Warminster one for DEMO purposes as issued to Capt Harvison and the three below for replacement of the L42A1 trials, whether all three were used in these trials is anybody's guess and only ITDU Warminster could confirm that as nothing logged in the registers namely 00101F/00102F/00103F:

    2/12/88 M85 S/N 00366F in .308 NORMA 168 GRN entry 275 in PH Register issued to Captain HARVISON Rifle in Jungle CAMO Schmidt & Bender scope fitted shot 16.4mm group at 100 yards 10 rounds

    7/8/90 to 8/4/91 M85 S/N 00101F in 7.62 NATO entry 344 in PH Register
    and
    7/8/90 to 8/4/91 M85 S/N 00102F in 7.62 NATO entry 342 in PH Register
    and
    7/8/90 to 8/4/91 M85 S/N 00103F in 7.62 NATO entry 343 in PH Register

    a further M85 is recorded

    As being sold on 22nd November 2000 M85 S/N 00105F in 7.62 NATO entry 345 in PH Register sold to Norman Clarks whilst PH was in administration.

    As entered thats all there is relating to trials or the numbers you provide.

    In relation to sequence......there wasn't any for example 00150F went out of the door on the 4th February 1988
    where 00151F went out the door on the 12th May 1988.
    00241F went out of the door on the 9th December 1987 and 00135F went out of the door 26th November 1986!!!
    00169F went out of the door on the 23rd February 1988, so from what Bill and Eddie state they came to the work stations and the job got done one at a time.

    00135F was one of the first to leave the factory if the register is to be believed and supplied in Arctic Camo with a Swarovski ZFM scope 6x42 P Mount Arctic knobs fitted as well on the 26th November 1986 to the Royal Canadianicon Police.

    Hope that helps, Roger Hale was a law unto himself, so to speak and there was no Rhyme nor reason in the process, which you would have thought there would have been. I certainly wouldn't want to write an accurate book on this rifle.........you would need a bloody big crystal ball IMHO!!!

    So in short, unless someone on here can corroberate the timing it would appear Capt Harvison was the first interested party for the MOD on the M85's progress back in December 1988 as above.
    Last edited by Gil Boyd; 03-08-2021 at 10:11 AM.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

  11. #278
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil Boyd View Post
    Nigel,

    I can confirm that three rifles went to Warminster one for DEMO purposes as issued to Capt Harvison and the three below for replacement of the L42A1 trials, whether all three were used in these trials is anybody's guess and only ITDU Warminster could confirm that as nothing logged in the registers namely 00101F/00102F/00103F:

    2/12/88 M85 S/N 00366F in .308 NORMA 168 GRN entry 275 in PH Register issued to Captain HARVISON Rifle in Jungle CAMO Schmidt & Bender scope fitted shot 16.4mm group at 100 yards 10 rounds

    7/8/90 to 8/4/91 M85 S/N 00101F in 7.62 NATO entry 344 in PH Register
    and
    7/8/90 to 8/4/91 M85 S/N 00102F in 7.62 NATO entry 342 in PH Register
    and
    7/8/90 to 8/4/91 M85 S/N 00103F in 7.62 NATO entry 343 in PH Register

    a further M85 is recorded

    As being sold on 22nd November 2000 M85 S/N 00105F in 7.62 NATO entry 345 in PH Register sold to Norman Clarks whilst PH was in administration.

    As entered thats all there is relating to trials or the numbers you provide.

    In relation to sequence......there wasn't any for example 00150F went out of the door on the 4th February 1988
    where 00151F went out the door on the 12th May 1988.
    00241F went out of the door on the 9th December 1987 and 00135F went out of the door 26th November 1986!!!
    00169F went out of the door on the 23rd February 1988, so from what Bill and Eddie state they came to the work stations and the job got done one at a time.

    00135F was one of the first to leave the factory if the register is to be believed and supplied in Arctic Camo with a Swarovski ZFM scope 6x42 P Mount Arctic knobs fitted as well on the 26th November 1986 to the Royal Canadianicon Police.

    Hope that helps, Roger Hale was a law unto himself, so to speak and there was no Rhyme nor reason in the process, which you would have thought there would have been. I certainly wouldn't want to write an accurate book on this rifle.........you would need a bloody big crystal ball IMHO!!!

    So in short, unless someone on here can corroberate the timing it would appear Capt Harvison was the first interested party for the MOD on the M85's progress back in December 1988 as above.
    Interested in the sequence of things -

    Gil, if the earliest M85 was 26th November 1986, when is the earliest:

    M84
    M85 11.26.86
    M86
    M87
    BSN from the Republic of Alberta

    http://www.cartridgecollectors.org/

  12. #279
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    Sadly, not recorded in the files I have.
    Just waiting for Bill to get back to me who might have that answer, but its a long time ago now, and their memory would probably have been in most of the records being burnt in 2000!

    The first M87 recorded in the files I hold having just checked is Rifle number 02100C on the 2nd December 1988 with rifle number 01811C produced on the same day so you can see what a numeric mess it was back then.
    The first M84 recorded in the files I hold is rifle number 01726J on the 11th June 1986 with rifle number 01716J produced the same day!!
    The first M86 recorded in the files I hold is rifle number 01785C on the 13th June 1986 with rifle number 01777C produced on the 16th December 1986 Only 3 rifles recorded as being finished in 1986 the rest in 1987 - 1989.
    Last edited by Gil Boyd; 03-10-2021 at 06:33 AM.
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

  13. #280
    Contributing Member Gil Boyd's Avatar
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    RESPONSE FROM BILL SMALLWOOD PH ENGINEER AT THE TIME

    M85's serial numbers 00101F, 00102F and 00103F were/are prototype numbers and these rifles are at Norman Clark's.
    As for numbers going out in numerical order NO, as you have said it was a case of taking one off the shelf and you got whatever serial No that rifle or rifles were
    'Tonight my men and I have been through hell and back again, but the look on your faces when we let you out of the hall - we'd do it all again tomorrow.' Major Chris Keeble's words to Goose Green villagers on 29th May 1982 - 2 PARA

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