Enforcer receiver markings

[desperatedan]

Hello all. My first "proper" post so apologies for any errors especially if I can't get the photo uploaded first time.

I've been looking around at buying an Enforcer and have been trying to glean as much info as I can from the masses of interesting stuff posted on the forum. Anyway to get to the point...

Enforcers being few and far between I've just come across one here in the UK which looks very interesting, esp as it looks to have the full set. What's interested me particularly is the picture of the Enforcer markings on the receiver. I've read a lot in previous posts about these and the different milled "ovals" etc and also about Enfield having used Envoy receivers for the early ones. Well to me this example (No.233) seems to clearly show that the Envoy markings were milled off before the Enforcer ones applied. In the picture (excuse the quality) I think you can still make out the tops of the previous letters "E" "N" and "V" behind the "Enforcer" marks. I'm not doubting the originality of the rifle but did think it interesting that an Envoy receiver seemed to have been used by Enfield for this one. From what I've read I thought it was only for the first 200 that these were used for.

Kevin

Pic attached (I hope)

Information

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[Maxwell Smart]

It does look like there was "ENVOY" marked there beforehand.

While I know very little about Envoys or Enforcers, your picture does illustrate a question that I've had for some time.

The long teardrop shaped scoop which runs under PAT APP FOR mark - one sees this on some No 4's but not all; I'm of the belief that this is a characteristic of late Fazackerley receivers only. Could anyone confirm for me if that is correct or not?

[limpetmine]

To my untrained eye this one looks off. I'd study up on known receiver markings before getting in too deep.

[chosenman]

Hi Kevin, I'm with limpetmine. The Enforcer is quickly becoming a sort after rifle after many years of being left on the shelf and some are going for eye watering sums of money, especially this one your looking at, probably setting a new price bar this one. The guy selling is also the same chap selling the highly questionable SMLE "bubbered" for cavalry use and debated at length on this site.

Good luck!

[desperatedan]

You've now set me off researching again and what does seem odd is that on every picture of the markings I've found so far there are fullstops after each part of the words and numbers.

In this example I can't see the fullstops after "Enforcer" "233" "D73" "Patt" or "App".

Should the fullstops be there and has anyone seem anything similar?

Thanks

[chosenman]

Well spotted. Almost all will have a full stop visible on the 7.62 and after Pat. App. For. However, were the rifles produced with consecutive serial numbers? This could simply be an early rifle. The remnant marks of Envoy could actually be an indication of its authenticity would a fake be faked to such a high standard including retro foam in the case then make a mess of the markings?????

Records are sparse to non existent and non specification anomalies occur on genuine rifles which because of poor history can be misconstrued and steer one away from a potentially very nice rifle. Ask forum member Gil Boyd who steered his way through a lot of poor indicators, trusted his instincts and bought what turned out to be a very nice and interesting L42.

It never gets any easier this gun collecting lark!!

[Peter Laidler]

Go and speak to Colin at Fultons. He's seen/handled more of these that I've had hot dinners. If you have ears of a 'mild' disposition, then you'll have to excuse him as he is man of few words. But they're choice words of the non flowery type..........

[XL39E1]

Ive seen quite a lot of Enforcers, some with full stops after every word, some with just a full stop at the end of Patt App For! At least half of the early rifles I've seen that are below 288, you can still make out the early Envoy markings that were not quite removed!

[desperatedan]

Gents, Thanks for all your help and advice so far.

I'll keep doing my research and talk to Fultons but with the way prices seem to moving on these I guess I'll have to try and reach my own decision point soon or they'll be out of reach for me at least. As has been mentioned this example though does look very pricey compared to previous ones I've seen come up in the recent past. Here's hoping they don't follow the seemingly exponential price trajectory of L42's!

[Alan de Enfield]

I'll give you my two pennyworth.

Enforcers are very much undervalued.
Only 767 manufactured and now 50%+ of those destroyed. On 'numbers' only they should be considerably more expensive that No4Ts.
With a 4T you are buying the 'history' of an Army Sniper rifle that has 'been to war', but you are not buying an inherently better rifle.

A seller can ask whatever amount he wants for his firearm, it may not be the current 'market price' and we may all ask "what planet is he on" but its his choice - would be be so disparaging if he was selling it a 50% of market price ?

At £2800 with a transit case (£500 on ebay ?) and spare magazine (£100+) its about at 'Market Price'. I think I saw one recently advertised without a scope and without a bipod for £1400

From my research 'Enfield' appear to have had a huge problem supplying the barreled actions to Parker Hale for conversion into Enforcers.

Enfield just could not get hold of enough actions and ended up buying 'used' actions (or even breaking down No4 rifles) from anywhere, these included Longbranch and Savage actions, so although I have not seen a Faz action there is no reason why they should not have used them.

From the variety of actions used, and the inconsistencies of numbering I believe (no evidence) that all of the actions that they could source were 'thrown' into a bin and just used as they came out, more actions sourced and thrown on top of the 'old batch' with no planned stock rotation.

From the one picture I would say that the Envoy / Enforcer is Kosher - but - if I was buying it I'd want to see more and / or touch it.