Ishapore 2A1 - General Questions (Help) Required

[DRAGON64]

At first glance, the Ishapore 2A1 is so ugly and unique, that I just had to have one. I said to myself, if I ever had to buy an Enfield, it would be the No. 1 MK III... I just did not want to learn the 303 cartridge. But now, finding out that the No. 1 MK III could be had in 308 was just too good to pass up. So I found this rifle on gun broker and gave it a home.

Attachment 53666

Attachment 53667

The inside of the stock was caked in cosmo, so I enjoyed myself cleaning this one up.

I had some light 308 rounds loaded for another rifle that no longer existed (sold off) that I decided to shoot in this rifle, they were reloaded by myself using the following components:

Remington case 1X fired; CCI #34 primer (like a magnum primer); 155gr Nosler CC bullet & 42gr of IMR 4895 in the first five rounds and 42,5gr in the 6th.

Had I read up more on this rifle, I would have never attempted a commercial case in a NATO chamber. Nonetheless, the chamber headspaced well on all three gauges for a 308, so I shot the above mentioned rounds. I started with the five rounds loaded with 42gr. Bolt lift on all rounds seemed excessive, and quick visual noted that maybe the Remington case was being stressed. Primers seemed a little distorted, but othwise fine. The sixth round, which contained the 42.5gr of powder really tossed the warning flag; extremely hard to extract, and a visual noted a flattened primer.

The remaining ammo was pulled, powder dumped and re-measured to 38gr. 21-rounds total, all fired without incident, except for a sticky bolt on lift. Cases were fine, and no primer flattened.

If I take an prepped case (w/out primer or bullet) and cycle it through the chamber, I noticed that the extractor pushes the case so tightly against the back wall, that the drag alone makes for a hard extraction. Just this past weekend I prepped 100 pieces of Lake City Match brass for use in this rifle. I cycled one of the empties just like the Remington, except I had a bullet installed, and it did not drag on the far wall of the receiver.

There is far more info that I can provide on the action, and ammo I plan to use in the near future, But this is a start. This same subject has beat at other forums, but it was pointed out to me that I should have started here first... sorry, but I seem to be late to my own party.

To that, I will add that I did make contact with Brian Dick from here on the forum, and presented my issues to hime... of course without having the rifle in hand, he could not be of much help, which is totally understandable.

I am Enfield deficient, in that I only know enough to get me in trouble. The knowledge base is so large, that without incarceration, I do not believe I could consume it all in a timely manner... so I appeal to you good people to help worj through the issues I am having with my one and only Enfield.

For what it is worth, my magazine cycles just fine...

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

What ytou are asking is the 'car won't start' question. You know the one............ Mr Garage owner, my car won't start........ what's wrong? And expecting him to say '........ it's the condenser in the distributor that is breaking down slowly'. It might be of course but.......

YOU can solve a lot of these problems by a sequence of deduction or systematically going through the rifle in a sequence, fault finding as you go.

The FIRST thing you need to do is to try the rifle with 7.62mm NATO spec drill rounds and see how it reacts with dummy.drill rounds fed through the magazine, chambered, dry fired extracted and ejected. If they work perfectly then you've got to try it with exactly what it was made to eat. That is factory 7.62mm NATO ball.

The rest is up to you but before you go any further I want you to bring up a lesson on this forum about the setting up of the bolt because some of your terminology ain't the same as ours..., Such as 'bolt lift' which you mention that does not equate to 'bolt lift' in the Armourers world.

CHS is another point to ponder. What size gauges are you using? And why three? Do you KNOW the CHS spec for this rifle? And who told you?

Those are a few things to be getting on with.........

[DRAGON64]

I have cycled some NATO spec rounds, specifically a round I use as a tool to check over all length, it has a bullet installed but no primer/powder. The bolt cycles as I would imagine a working bolt system should. Bolt lift is referring the bolt handle lifting or camming to start the bolt cycle. When I tried to extract the initial five fired rounds, the bolt handle would stick at the top of rotation, and the round would be tough to extract. The last round I described, having 42.5 gr of powder, would not extract without significant force. I could imagine the case end being ripped off, with the case stuck in the bore. Or maybe even a broken extractor, but to my glee, the empty finally released and ejected.

Since firing the round with 42(+) grains of powder, I had since modified the remaining ammo, to resemble a load recommended from a Hornady maual for M1A1 rifles. Essentally 38gr of powder. I ran 21 rounds without issue. No stoicky cases, no expanded or flattened primers etc.

I used 308 headspace gauges. Why all three? Beacuse they were available, and I needed to know what the rifle was exhibing on a GO: NO-GO and Field gauge. I have read your findings from your communication with the Indian armorers, and I know what their specs are...without a datum point, I feel that we are not much closer than we are now. The rifle, from the standpoint of a 308 gauge set, passed. Without any Indian gauges, I'm working blindly. I could use NATO gauges that I have available here Stateside, but as you have pointed out, from what datum point did they make their tool set(?). My rationale is, that a 308 field gauge is set at 1.638" and the bolt did not close on it. The NATO No-Go is set at 1.638" so essentially I assumed the bolt would not close on a NATO field gauge at 1.6455".

I considered two possible problems working to undermine my success; First and foremost, I used a commercial case in a NATO chamber, and it was loaded too hot. And, I could possibly be working with a bolt with worn parts. The latter is not something I came up with, a member on another forum had posed the possibilty that my bolt is worn, and he stated to, that bolt could indeed be the cause of a hard "bolt lift"

So yes, I am asking the impossible, by aksing what went wrong... The user error issues I can resolve, and I am working those now; I spent the last 4-5 days prepping Lake City brass (NATO), and I am currently loading them to a Hornady spec that allows the round to be safely cycled in a gas gun, the M1A1. Pressures will be low, as will the fps.

From my limited research, I find that the 2A1 is a use-at-your-own-risk platform... some see it as nothing more than a wall hanger or safe queen. I do not have time or storage for safe queens, as I would rather dump the rifle to the next collecrtor, and use the money to get something I can enjoy, like a Garand or 1903. But like I said, the No. 1 MK III was so ugly and unique, I had to have one. So to modify my questioning; if I buy 7.62 NATO and shoot it without issue, can I expect that if I load to that spec it should safely as well?

In case it is not blatantly obvious, I am not an amorer, so my terminology only reflects what I relate to from range talk... I don't know any armorers, so please excuse my termenology of action or result. I'm learning.

[Peter Laidler]

You have answered your own question in short Dragon. The problem is in the rifle AFTER firing it. That's not BEFORE firing it you understand, but AFTER the high pressure explosion has taken place.

If the bolt is properly set up, and fits correctly............

From what you say about the thereafter I'd say that you have a bulged chamber on the basis that if it ain't difficult to unlock, primary extract, extract and eject an unfired round but DOES on a fired round......