Now here's a thing.....

[Peter Laidler]

This won’t affect anyone unless they have a UK made L1A1 but I was talking to someone at Bisley the other day who’d bought a UK made dewat L1A1 rifle and wanted to know why on this and his friends dewat L1A1’s the breech blocks and carriers (the BB&C) were all numbered to the rifle. The answer is quite simple really, to keep them as matched sets. I always had my doubts as to the validity of numbering the actual carrier* but if the EMER says so, then so be it!

BUT....., unlike other weapons, like the Bren and L4’s with the usual A-12345 type number on the barrel, breech block and piston assembly, the number on the BB&C of our L1A1’s was in a slightly different format. The EMER specified the number should be UE or UB A-12345. This specifies the maker of the gun as well as the serial number. Why he asked?

The reason for this is lost in time from the earliest days of series production when production from the strike bound Fazakerley factory was transferred to BSA. The Fazakerley allocation of serial numbers was changed slightly for several reasons I won’t go into – but commercial accountability was one - and moved over to BSA. In reality, it meant that for some considerable time at BSA/Enfield there was a duplication of the actual NUMBER part of the serial number. The whole format remained the same but you COULD get a case where there would be TWO rifles together with
UE58A-12345 and
UB58A-12345 And in the original scheme of things, two BB&C’s could be present both reading A-12345. See what I mean……?

This was soon noticed and a technical instruction/bulletin was issued and it was decided that the L1A1 rifle BB&C’s would be cross referenced with the number AND the manufacturer. This way there would be no doubt. That’s why the L1A1’s are marked UEA-12345 or UBA-12345 while the Bren/L4 et al are simply A-12345. After all they are all UE!

With the advent of pooled Australian/Malayan/New Zealand Ordnance stocks in Malaya came about and subsequent purchases were made from Australia it made no difference because there could be no confusion between the AD numbering system. And presumably, by then, the actual chances of two identical numbers being together were beyond remote!

There another quite useless bit of ancient info for you L1A1 nerds

*because all the BBC does is carry the breech block, press it down to lock, lift it up to unlock and trip the safety (or automatic) sear

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

We did from time to time see them numbered like this Peter. I wonder if they somehow came through the big workshops in CFE and since you all worked on everything, they got numbered that way? Then somehow returned to stock in Canada and issued from there. There weren't many mind, but I did see them.

[Peter Laidler]

I know that at the big Base workshop at Wetter in Germany UK and Canadian Armourers (and civillians) worked together on all of our kit. That was another pooled Ordnance situation too, But I don't ever recall seeing Canadian L1A1's in UK service although my old pal Roger xxxxx says that a few Canadian Long Branches were in his unit at Duisberg. From our point of view, an L1A1 was an L1A1 whoever made it and all the parts interchanged.

[browningautorifle]

an L1A1 was an L1A1

My point exactly, the ones I saw with SN engraved may have had a UK hand on them. I never had any idea how they'd come to be numbered before. We didn't even care which breech block went where. Just accountable by number count.

[Peter Laidler]

I commented on the breech block carriers being numbered but I could never understand why. They weren't calibrated to or measured in any way to the rifle. A bit like the butt slide on the old Brens and L4 guns. They all seemed to interchange without any priblems after they were hand fitted - of sorts.....

I did mention this to someone once while the EMER's were being re-written/revamped to become EASP's and he explained that it was important because the butt mounting holes were gauged to a greater tolerance on those guns selected/calibrated/examined/authorised to be used for Overhead fire (OHF guns). But by the 80's NO Bren/L4 guns were EVER used in the OHF role! Oh well.......

One good thing about that conversation that another Territorial Armourer Sgt was involved in (Peter Axxxxx-Xxxx was a Dr in real life.....) was that thereafter butt slides could be serially numbered on the LEFT side rear on the flat above the pistol grip instead of at the rear, above the butt which was always a PITA. After that, it was tacitly accepted that if required, re-numbered bodies could be numbered in a similar place on the rear left side. But I only ever saw a few clapped-out L55's re-marked there

Maybe this shopuld be duplicated into the Bren thread section too.