Fixing up an SMLE with a Win A5 scope.

[Buntline]

Hi, I getting a little lost looking for answers to this so am posting my questions . I'm looking to set up my (bitsa) SMLE with a Winchester A5 type scope. I keep coming across references to the Winchester B5 scope which looks identical. Can anyone tell me what the difference is and whether the B5 was ever used on the SMLE. I know I can get a B5 repro from Montana Vintage Arms as an option or should I be sticking to the A5?

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[RCS]

I checked the "Catalogue of the Enfield Pattern Room" that was published in 1981, I was unable to find any examples of the SMLE No 1 Mark III with a Winchester A5 scope mounted. From my own collection of photos, I did find a WW1 French Lebel rifle with a Winchester A5 scope mounted and I understand a small number were assembled during the war.Attachment 54634

[Roger Payne]

907 Winchester scopes, all or mostly A5's, were purchased by the British Government in 1915/16 for fitting to the SMLE. It is reported that both over bore & offset mounts were used, but I only know of definite examples of the offset mounts that have survived. I believe there is a photo-essay of one on this very forum which belongs either to Badger or Mrs Badger! The firm of Whitehead Brothers were contracted to fit the scopes. I have never seen a B5 bearing evidence of British ownership nor indeed a B4 either, though I possess a WW1 era B4 that came to me with a history of being mounted to a SMLE. On the other hand A5's are scarce but not unobtainable bearing British markings. They are of two varieties; firstly some scopes bear the broad arrow & Enfield inspector's mark on the mounts; secondly some bear a boldly engraved SMLE serial number on the top of the scope tube (the engraving was originally filled with red paint or kwikfill type material, though this has often come out over the years). I have never seen a scope bearing both military acceptance stamps AND a SMLE serial number together.

I have a few reproduction sets of Whitehead mounts available for sale currently, should anyone be interested.

ATB.

[Badger]

There's a good example of a SMLE mounted with the Winchester A5 scope in the MKL...

1916 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) No.1 MkIII* Sniper Rifle c/w Winchester A5 (5 Power) Offset Scope (Mfg by RSAF Enfield), as shown is an "all correct" example along with a 240 picture photo montage in the United Kingdom - Knowledge Library

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Some discussion about the B5 scope here..

MVA Winchester B-5 Scope | Guns Magazine

Regards,
Doug

[jmoore]

I have a few reproduction sets of Whitehead mounts available for sale currently, should anyone be interested.

You wouldn't think it a useful mount at all, but they seem to work OK. I've had a British marked A5 on a SMLE for some time. Delicate scope you'd think as well, but the two major dramas are damaged crosswires and shifting inner lenses. The latter is user servicable in the field, usually, the former needs someone to go inside and do some minorly fiddly work.

[Roger Payne]

Attachment 54653

Hope this comes out. They need a little fitting & obviously aren't 'no gunsmithing' mounts, but if you want to put together a WW1 lookalike sniper......

ATB.

[Peter Laidler]

Can I have 30 of the miniature flower pots while you're there Roger? Or the orange smurf.......... or is that the England football manager?

[Roger Payne]

BuXXer! Now everyone knows about my other passion for cake making!

[Buntline]

Thanks everyone. I had found badger's example in the Knowledge Lib, (seriously nice & thanks for posting it again here, badger) but it didn't really answer my question about the B5. Interesting to read that there may have been a B on an SMLE. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the B5 & A5 ?

Roger - I'm Highly interested in those bases (which one goes where?). Can you PM me to discuss?

Does anyone have an A5 with micrometre mounts they're desperate to sell?

[Roger Payne]

The B4 is slightly shorter than the A5 & I think the B5 is also slightly shorter (than the A5) - but I could be wrong. I only collect British issue scopes & have never come across a B4 or a B5 that was British marked - though someone out there may know differently. I have several A5's & the one unmarked B4. Unfortunately I don't want to part with any of them at the moment. The case on one of them is unit marked, which is not often encountered - 26th Bn RF.

Buntline, I'll drop you a pm as soon as I've finished typing this out.....

(Have just come in for a cuppa - have had a great evening in the garage workshop working on a L42 butt & cheekpiece & restoring a 'Loos grenade' (empty, of course!)).

ATB.