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Thread: Reproduction Ross Rifle Stocks, Fresh Off The Duplicator!

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    Contributing Member flying pig's Avatar
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    Reproduction Ross Rifle Stocks, Fresh Off The Duplicator!

    So earlier this spring I bought a turn-key Radarcarve Duplicator and a bunch of tools, jigs, parts etc from CGNer and Ross forum member Stoggie in hopes of reproducing military rifle stocks. I've spent the last few months gearing up, practicing, trying to find blanks and playing around with different ideas of how I wanted things to be. Its been a long road into this new hobby and a bit of a costly venture but this weekend it has finally paid off as I now have in my possession a completely newly stocked MkII 3* rifle all ready for the range.

    Things were slow to get going, this duplicator is a real challenge to operate, and is almost a hobby on its own. There are a lot of things I'm going to need to change on it more or less to create safeguards to prevent operator error and to attempt to make it more accurate for inletting (the most time consuming part of the whole operation is getting the action and all systems fitted and operating properly and bedded). I bit off a big chunk in deciding to do a MkII rifle first. The stocks are so thin that there is considerable play in the duplicator and this makes inletting a huge burden. The fitting of the action and components on this rifle took nearly 70 hours to complete. In the end though I think it was a great success, with no major flaws and only a few small flaws to do with the inletting at the back of the action and in the area around the trigger guard/mag floor. All the bands fit perfectly and the rear handguard spring actually went together quite well and I was able to use the steel rivets to good effect. I've had major issues with the rivets on past attempts as they are extremely difficult to get the heads lined up well and the spring centered in the handguard as well as getting the rivets in tight enough to do their job.

    I also recently completed a MkIII de sporterization using a fore end extension I made. I would like to share those photos as well.

    I made a master stock for this MKII from a MkII 3* stock which had been sanded to death and which has over 1" of the butt cut off flat. I was able to use this stock by making my master about 1/4" oversize and hand shaping the entire rear section of the butt. I learned that the master should actually be as close to the finished product as possible through doing the finished stock. I'm going to hand fit the MkII action into the master stock in order to do this. The master was too far from finished and left way too much hand fitting behind. The same is true for the master handguard set I made. I left them too far oversized and they alone took most of a day to properly fit.

    Here is the spliced stock I did:











    And here is the newly stocked MkII:



















    And the happy builder!



    If you guys have any constructive criticism, hints, tips, tricks or questions on this please ask away. I'm still greener than grass when it comes to building stocks but hings are well on their way now. Next I'm going to build a MkIII stock using Stoggie's master so I can see how much easier they will be to do. I know their handguards are a b*tch because they have four rivets over the MkII guards having 2 rivets. I've done two of those handguards now and neither turned out great. Its going to get better with practice though. This stock is much better than any of my previous attempts.

    This stock also was the most plain cut out of my blank I have here. There is enough left to do two MkIII and one more MkII as well as a number of handguards and fore end extensions. The plan is to just keep doing this as a hobby and at my own pace, when I feel like it. So expect more to come, but I won't be taking on custom orders anytime soon as I feel it just takes the fun out of it to be obligated to do it. The ones which I want to sell will be put up in the EEf on CGN however, so keep your eyes open guys if you are interested. If anyone here wants one, please feel free to shoot me a PM and I will let you know what I have cooking.

    Steve, JP and the others, we need those nose caps now!

    Thanks guys!

    Brandon.
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    A Collector's View - The SMLE Short Magazine Lee Enfield 1903-1989. It is 300 8.5x11 inch pages with 1,000+ photo’s, most in color, and each book is serial-numbered.  Covering the SMLE from 1903 to the end of production in India in 1989 it looks at how each model differs and manufacturer differences from a collecting point of view along with the major accessories that could be attached to the rifle. For the record this is not a moneymaker, I hope just to break even, eventually, at $80/book plus shipping.  In the USA shipping is $5.00 for media mail.  I will accept PayPal, Zelle, MO and good old checks (and cash if you want to stop by for a tour!).  CLICK BANNER to send me a PM for International pricing and shipping. Manufacturer of various vintage rifle scopes for the 1903 such as our M73G4 (reproduction of the Weaver 330C) and Malcolm 8X Gen II (Unertl reproduction). Several of our scopes are used in the CMP Vintage Sniper competition on top of 1903 rifles. Brian Dick ... BDL Ltd. - Specializing in British and Commonwealth weapons Specializing in premium ammunition and reloading components. Your source for the finest in High Power Competition Gear. Here at T-bones Shipwrighting we specialise in vintage service rifle: re-barrelling, bedding, repairs, modifications and accurizing. We also provide importation services for firearms, parts and weapons, for both private or commercial businesses.
     

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    Legacy Member Salt Flat's Avatar
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    Brandon, Fantastic! The time to complete will improve drastically with each unit as you learn the machine's in's and outs. Great effort! Salt Flat

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    Legacy Member RangeRover's Avatar
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    Great work Brandon. Hopefully we'll get to see some of your efforts at next year's Alberta Ross/vintage battle rifle shoot.

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    Legacy Member WarPig1976's Avatar
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    Knew you weren't messing around the first time you posted the splice, Bravo man!!!

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    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    I suspect that the trick with the handguards is in the way the pattern is set up.

    If you look at, for instance, a SMLE front handguard, it is a VERY thin piece of timber.

    However, imagine it with a nice, chunky block attached to each end.

    Cut the barrel inlet FIRST, then turn it over and do a Michaelangelo: cut away everything that doesn't look like the finished product.

    If you need a LOT of these fiddly bits of wood:

    Imagine two or three of these "extended" handguards formed, side by side, in a single "plank" of timber.

    That way, you are dealing with a much more substantial chunk of tree and it can be held in a decent-sized fixture.

    Machine out the INSIDE channels, rivet holes etc, first, then in the next set up, turn it over and machine the outside profile, always leaving little "web" sections to hold the workpiece together. This will certainly reduce vibration and stop it "getting away".

    The machining of the inside channel of the original handguards and fore-ends appears to have been done with a very LONG tool: a set of cutters mounted on a long mandrel. This would appear to be the only way to fly when you need thousands of components per week. It COULD be duplicated by some "creative" programming and tool-setting on a CNC router table if you have such a device in your "shed": good luck!

    Finally, cut the almost finished "component away from the "matrix".

    A quick final trim and sand to remove the "sprue lugs" and it's off to the linseed oilicon bath and fitting of the fiddly caps, rivets, etc..

    Also in the case of SMLE top wood, I have a strong suspicion that the front and rear handguards were machined in one very long piece and then cut into two for final finishing; much easier than trying to prevent the fragile "fingers" that fit around the rear sight bed getting broken off in high-speed machinery.

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    Legacy Member Colonel Enfield's Avatar
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    That's outstanding work - really impressive stuff!

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    Contributing Member flying pig's Avatar
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    Bruce, these hand guards were done exactly that way. It is definitely going to take some practice and it sounds like some different bits to get this right.

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    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    And anuvver Fing, as someone else is wont to say............

    One of the few relaxations in SMLE woodwork occurred with the front handguard.

    Given the cost of the tooling required to make the original tapered channel, some bright spark came up with a "better idea"; use a router table and simply make the channel PARALLEL.

    There IS an official drawing for this in existence; I will try to get the reference number from one of my henchmen who may even have the drawing in question. I vaguely recall that the exterior shape remained pretty much the same. The only minor catch would be the reduction of "beef" for the front cap rivets to bite.

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    Legacy Member Bruce_in_Oz's Avatar
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    Nice Ross, by the way, Brandon.

    Just got an email back re the "relaxation" on handguard manufacture.

    Here goes:

    Original drawing of "parallel groove version: R.S.A.F. 3225.

    This was derived from specification S.A. 1031

    One Lithgowicon "redraw" is A-665. (Traced 10 Feb 1921 and probably earlier as well). This is for a "proper" handguard.

    HOWEVER Lithgow A-665 contains a note referring to "Handguard, Front, with parallel groove, See Dwg. C-648".

    The drawing for the "Handguard, Front, with "Parallel" Groove is interesting:

    The radius of the parallel channel is 0.355".

    The REALLY tricky part is that the centre-line of the channel is NOT parallel to the lower surface of the handguard timber as one would imagine.

    At the REAR of the front hand-guard, the 0.355" groove is centred on the bottom of the timber. by the time it gets to the muzzle end, the centre-line of the groove is 0.060" BELOW the bottom edge of the handguard. Thus it retains a bit more wood in the critical area that supports the end-cap and rivets. And, unlike a few other rifles, it has that little end cap to give it a bit of extra strength where it is needed.

    (VERY cunning!!)

    A different machine set-up would be required: possibly shipped off to an outside "furniture" contractor for the "inside routing" job and then returned, to go through the "factory" profiler for the outside surfaces.........., but if you can then churn out several thousand per week with simpler cutting tools, so what??

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  20. #10
    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    I think you can expect a great deal of replacement work coming...
    Regards, Jim

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