Which cartridge are the civilian Webley .38 revolvers sighted for?

[emmagee1917]

Hummmmmmmm...... food for thought here . Lots of maybes crop up .
The Brits needed pistols and S&W needed help out of the light rifle fiasco . They supplied a version of thier ( to become ) Victory / Model 10 . They left it bored for Americian .38 in the barrel because the tooling was in place and it would do . The cylinder was bored out to the British round / 38 S&W . I wonder if they did anything to the front sight ? They might have left it as 38 Spl. as far as we know . The fact that it crosses the 25 yd target at the right time in my guns with the 38/200 load my just be a happy coincidence in my hands .
I know the 145 gr 38 S&W shoots low and the 38/200 handload right on , but I've never shot the 178 gr load . Don't recall ever seeing any for sale ( except maybe in some cartrige collections ) over here . If it hits close to the 200 gr load , it may be sighted for that .
Then again , as I said , it may be sighted for the 158gr 38 spl load for all we know .
If so , then all my comments on the S&Ws are off topic
Chris

[Johnny Peppers]

The British started replacing the .455 revolvers with the .38/200 Mk.1 in 1922.

[Peter Laidler]

Probably getting slightly off the true subject a bit but reading from some of my old training precis etc I get the impression that zeroing and sighting a .38 pistol - or any revolver really, is a bit like guiding a well used shopping trolley. You can try. You can do your best at controlling it but it'll do what it wants in the end. It says words to the effect

The foresight tip of a revolver is always much higher than the backsight above the mechanical axis of the bore. The accelleration of the bullet along the bore causes the revolver to recoil of course and owing the anatomical shape of the frame and the human grip that recoil will always rotate the hand round and upwards. A small proportion of this movement occurs before the projectile leave the barrel and cancells out the depression of the muzzle caused by the foresight while aiming.

The muzzle of a .38" revolver rises approx 0.18" while the bullet it in the barrel but much more after shot ejection of course. It goes without saying that the greater the weight of the weapon, the the slower will this recoil develop. This extra weight is something the designers and users do not want.

It is useless trying to resist this recoil in a light .38 service revolver because the force is large, in the region of 160 ft/lbs. The EFFECT is comparatively small because it only endures for fractions of a second but the effect on the bullet on its way to a torso or target can be great

[Beerhunter]

The British started replacing the .455 revolvers with the .38/200 Mk.1 in 1922.

Not possible I'm afraid. The first production model of the Pistol Revolver No.2 Mk.1 (held by the Pattern Room) is dated 1929, it was not formally approved until 1932.

You may be confusing it with Enfield production of the .455 Webley Mk.VI which started in 1921.

[jmoore]

The muzzle of a .38" revolver rises approx 0.18" while the bullet it in the barrel but much more after shot ejection of course. It goes without saying that the greater the weight of the weapon, the the slower will this recoil develop. This extra weight is something the designers and users do not want.

A couple of other factors that make zeroing a handgun more difficult than might be expected:

The height at which the user grips the firearm matters. I tend to take a high hold, often high enough that a hammer spur (if present) will make contact with the web of my hand when cocked. This will lower the POI, all else being the same. (Enfield revolvers invariably shoot low for me regardless of bullet weight. But are surprisingly accurate once compensated for. Webleys of any caliber? Safest place downrange is where I'm aiming when using the trigger to cock the action!)

Another factor is the user's visual acuity. Any "fuzzing" of or glare from either sight will make a relatively large change downrange as compared to a rifle. Short sight radius and all that.

Right and left POI changes can be made by changes in how the revolver is held as well.

Having the troops(or officers, NCOs, etc.) do well with handguns at any sort of distance isn't worth the training effort for most military purposes, though.

[Brian Dick]

The Mk.2z .38-200 cartridge was loaded with a 174 grain FMJ projectile. I'd guess the later Webley revolvers, commercial or otherwise were designed for this load and not the early 200 grain projectile. As stated above, the standard USA 145 grain loading will print low on the target.