1945 Remington Rand w/ Box - Is this a fake?

[1911a1]

Is this box a fake? Does the finish look original on the pistol? I read that there are many fakes. The stamp looks to have been applied after the finish.







Under the wrap I found this. NRA 1962. The s/n matches the pistol.

Information

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[Brian Dick]

It looks honest. The slide has been heavily refinished which is typical. It's hard to believe but they actually put the parts in a huge sand tumbler to clean them. Simply awful! They were shipped direct from several U.S. Arsenals in the 1950's and 1960's in matching kraft boxes as purchased through NRA and DCM.

[Mikesm44]

I have one bought 1965 through the NRA too. Looks very similar, but I believe as said the finish is off. It looks too light. It could be correct though, it is very hard to tell in pictures. Here are some photos of my Colt and RR 1911. WWII 1911A1 - Imgur

[Brian Dick]

I think the frame is original finish because the crossed cannons look as if they cut the finish when stamped. It might be the picture but it sure looks bright in spots to me. The slide is obviously heavily reParkerized as I mentioned above. They were disassembled, inspected, refinished if necessary and put back together with no intention of matching up original parts. It is what it is and looks to be just as shipped to the original buyer. I had one almost exactly like it as shipped to a buyer in Jacksonville, FL from San Antonio Arsenal in the 60's. It was a 1944 Colt production pistol.

[Neal Myers]

The finish on the pistol may be all original; photos need to be well lit with white light, & in focus. Also, we need to see the entire box, including the inside. Seeing the SN might help; the only valid reason to obscure it is if you believe that the gun is stolen. Only the inspectors initials & the DAS should have burnishing (bright metal showing); you may need a 10x loupe to see.

Neal

[Brian Dick]

I'll stick to my guns, (pardon the pun), that the slide has been reParkerized. Forget the actual phosphate coating. The damage to the metal from being tumbled with sand is pretty blatant. Notice the difference in the grain structure on the close up photo as compared to the frame not to mention the battered sharp edges, dings and dents from tumbling with other parts. I saw the big tumbler at the 82nd Division workshops at Fort Bragg in the early 1980's and being a gun guy then as I am now, I was appalled but that's how it was. Just my 2 cents.

[DaveN]

So why did they tumble the slides?

[John Wyatt]

The whole gun looks like original finish to me. Never heard of tumbling slides.

[Johnny Peppers]

The Remington Rand pistols that were new in the original shipping boxes as sold through the NRA/DCM were all late pistols in the 2.44 million range. The phosphate finish was a much lighter color than previous Remington Rands, and typically the slides were a shade darker than the receiver and the small parts quite a bit darker.

Military 1911 and 1911A1 pistols were refinished by being sandblasted. Tumbling would have resulted in a bunch of beat up and damaged slides with the finish still on them.

[mike radford]

The finish on the pistol is most likely all original.

Mr. Peppers can help with the box with good photos. The boxes are tough for me to know for sure.

Johnny, I have seen 3 or 4 Remington Rands with box and some with both box and papers there were in other serial ranges, like 1.5 million and 2.2 million. I did not examine every detail as they were for sale and I was not buying. Have you seen any in this range? Fake papers and boxes, especially boxes, are becoming common.

One other related question, do you have any knowledge on how many of the DCM/NRA shipped M1911s and A1s that were new Remington Rands(most I have seen apparently were), other makers and rebuilt/arsenal pistol. Both any hard data and personal observations would be valued. Thanks.