1912 Holster for Colt 1911

[jms1945]

I have recently purchased a 1911 Colt (SN 84556) along with a 1912 Mounted Holster.

The holster is stamped B 87 on the flap.

The pistol was shipped to Lt. Gen. of Mass State Arsenal, So. Framingham Ma on 23 May 1914.

I purchased the gun/holster from New York State (a dealer).

Can anyone give me any information about the provenance of this gun/holster combination ??

Information

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[RT Ellis]

Purchased from a dealer it's no wonder you don't have any "provenance" It is more likely the pistol was sent to the state adjutant general as most state militia AGs were brigadier or major general at the most. (Someone probably misunderstood "adt general" to mean Lt. General.)

As to the marking on the holster M1912 (which was general issue and not necessarily mounted) the letter represented a company, battery or troop, and the number was a soldier's number (which collectors like to call a "rack number") for identification of equipment issued to an individual. If there is another number that you didn't mention it is likely the regimental number. Usually the unit markings are regiment or battalion number; company, troop, battery letter (in the case of coast artillery the companies were numbered); and soldier's number, in that order but there was no consistency to the marking, especially by the militia . There should be the Rock Island Arsenal marking R.I.A., year and inspector's initials embossed on the back of the holster, however if not present it was manufactured for commercial sales, or may have been locally contracted by the state militia.

None of the information provided can provide much more provenance to the pistol and holster, the only provenance is the dealer that sold it to you. In my opinion dealers/sellers are the most unreliable source of provenance there is in militaria collecting.

[jms1945]

Thanks for the response.....about what I expected to hear.

Dealer did give me the name/address of the grandson (who reportedly sold to dealer) of the original owner (not Uncle Sam, I hope), have written grandson...no response thus far.

Maybe I'll get lucky./

[Johnny Peppers]

Best of all are the questions to a forum wanting to know if a seller's story that came with a gun is true. One yes and they are happy and provenance is born.

[browningautorifle]

It would still be the same provenance as a gunshow story.

[Johnny Peppers]

Even better. People that go to gun shows also participate on the forums.

[RT Ellis]

Family members rarely provide accurate provenance, and usually more sincere that the information they are providing they have some knowledge of. However the tales that are clearly family tradition are usually suspect as well. It's sort of like the oral history of native Americans that gets more obscured with each retelling of the account. I think that advanced collectors of militaria in particular have come to be cynical of undocumented stories, and much prefer images and documentation to provide provenance to the history of an item.

My own experience with my father that was in the Navy during WWII. He related stories of his experiences in combat at times, that later he changed significantly. So to a certain extent I don't know which remembrance was the more accurate. It should be that that recollections closer to the event are more vivid and accurate, but I think it's possible later recollections may be more accurate as memory is adjusted to the larger events. Of course there is also the loss of memory with time and age to consider. Fortunately he was sound mentally throughout his life, and I set him up with a spare computer and had him write his story at his leisure.

Around 1969 I taped an interview with a veteran of the Great War which I am rather proud of. If you know someone that you would like to capture their story do it ASAP, either through interview or get them to write it, in fact write your own story, someone will appreciate it.

In the mean time be a history detective and try to obtain provenance other than undocumented family tradition.