DP Martini Enfield - what to do???

[Vincent]

I find chamber inserts handy in cases like this. It’s a pretty safe bet that nothing really bad is going happen firing 7.62x25mm or .32 ACP.

Another advantage is it lets the wife and kids have some fun with rifles that would normally be too much for them to handle.

It’s also a cheap and easy option for folks who don’t reload.

[louthepou]

Isnt the 'R' for rusted barrel?

Probably - I just took the forearm off, and there's quite a bit of pitting on the outside of the barrel. Yikes.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Ooooh, nasty!


With BP I would be cautious.
With nitro I'd give it a miss. A German proof house would probably turn it down on sight.
A chamber insert is beginning to look like a good idea.

[louthepou]

Indeed. I have a few Tokarev pistols, so this is very likely going the 7.62x25 way. Good velocity, might have fun with that...

[Salt Flat]

Indeed. I have a few Tokarev pistols, so this is very likely going the 7.62x25 way. Good velocity, might have fun with that...

Good plan--Wow! that is some severe pitting. Now we know the reason for the DP designation! Salt Flat

[Vincent]

I believe the barrel threads are the same as the No4 Enfield. Not sure if there’s enough “meat” to turn one down to the same profile though. FN FAL breaching washers should work to set the headspace.

[Ridolpho]

Interesting thread. While I also believe the MH to be very strong, others have pointed out on the Lee-Enfield forum that rifles with DP markings might have been involved in a fire and, hence, metalurgically suspect. For that reason I would never shoot a DP Lee Enfield no matter how OK it looks to the naked eye. My interest in this is due to owning a Citadel refurbed Martini-Enfield. I believe the timing of the Citadel work puts it well into Mk VII days but I'm still nervous about using it with my usual .303 factory loads. Am I worrying needlessly?

Ridolpho

[Patrick Chadwick]

Disclaimer: what follows is in no circumstances a recommendation or excuse for handling or mishandling a Martini-Henry. Anyone seriously interested should obtain their own data and make their own calculations!

In a previous post I estimated the strength of the M-H type box receiver. I took typical Young's Modulus and elastic limit values for mild steel. After a fire, I would assume that the receiver steel might have similar values.

The result I obtained was a load of about 50 tons /"sq on the block face to stretch the box to its elastic limit. The load to break it would be about twice as much. In other words, pressure levels that would long since have blown any barrel sky-high. From these calculations I am reasonably sure that an M-H receiver that is uncompromised by rust or other damage will take any pressure that the barrel will withstand. Make your own calculations and draw your own conclusions.

I must mention here that the M-H system is occasionally misunderstood in that some people think that the pin around which the block rotates might be sheared off. This is incorrect. If your Martini is correctly assembled, and not a Khyber-Pass fudge, then the block, when forced back, actually bears on the back wall of the receiver box. The pin is just there to make sure that the block rotates correctly and does not fall out of position. If it were otherwise, the split pin would be totally inadequate!

..."but I'm still nervous about using it with my usual .303 factory loads. Am I worrying needlessly?"

Worrying is the wrong state of mind for shooting anything. Checking and calculation can remove many sources of worry. If, after checking and calculating what you can, you are still worried, then leave it. But it should be clear from my posts that IMHO the decisive aspect is the condition of the barrel - as your DP example demonstrates!

.

[Ridolpho]

Patrick: This is fascinating stuff and you've obviously given it a lot of thought. When I look at the MH action I see potential shear failure modes in addition to the whole box being put in tension. The block is applying a high differential stress across the back end of the receiver with potential shear planes quite apparent to me. Am I correct in assuming that in shear the specific properties of the steel would be important? You are correct about the split pin- I believe I recall reading about testing done with no pin in place.

In all honesty, I think historical records are the most useful info in assessing the safety of using an old type of rifle. If MH's had any chronic problems I'm sure we'd have heard all about it. I am planning to shoot the Martini-Enfield this spring, probably using some starting level handloads with 150 gr bullets.


Ridolpho

[louthepou]

Quick update, I have fired some 7.62x25 rounds, so at least that part works I also have bought (in the mail right now) a sporterized, longer-barreled ME which has a much better barrel.

Also been thinking about a barrel swap with a spare No4 Lee Enfield barrel for the carbine, but that's a project, and I have many at the moment... the fun never stops.

Lou