Sniper's Smock Ghillie S 1945

[Peter Laidler]

I shouldn't be stunned Nigel, - it's a discussion forum for all opinions! Against your argument is that while I can't see the detail in photo too well to compare, neither can anyone else sufficient to be definitive either! And that manufacturers label definately something that comes fixed to what we used to call C&T or Clothing and Textiles. A bog standard paiur of denims or a BattleDress jacket shows the detail that forms part of the contracvt label. And if the old and well liked camouflaged wartime SMOCKS, windproof were still available for the sniper wing in the 60's for outdoor training, how come we never saw these string vest type things - or ever heard of 'em. If these were an issue or available item, how come the quartermasters weren't instructed to obtain them as supplementary issues, authorised along with the authority that came along with the issue of the CES.

So far, and I know it's early days, but that's the only one known to exist

Yet to be convinced though

[Sniper1944]

The photograph appears to be from the Stonleigh Militaria fair this past January?
If so, the stall is run by a company called "Battledress & Bayonet". The garment although marked up with a very nice Crows foot and date, the seller is a large retailer of reproduction reenactment uniforms and most of his stuff is marked with similar stampings. I imagine it's been made with reference to the period photograph you posted.






Paul.

[Peter Laidler]

The garment so far has neither provenance nor antecedence. For example. If someone came up with, say, a small box of bakelite ends for the early prototype 'No32' scopes, then there is antecedence for that as we KNOW they existed. Thereafter provenance is easy(?) to prove.

Alas, this stringvest is like finding a supposedly prototype MG works car with a dodgy stick-on chassis number when noone has ever seen one. AND noone in Abingdon ever knew the beast existed

Not quite convinced yet..........

[bigduke6]

The weave does't compare to the Sniper in the pic, and of the pic, if anyone can enlarge it the Sniper on the left looks like he is wearing two items a suit of some sort and a separate head gear the fold or crease around the neck area shows this.

The weave does compare to some head gear in a few pics, there was a pic on the forum quite recent which illustrates it, but its just head gear...

[Peter Laidler]

On the snipers courses and presumable when they're out, it's the sniper who has the final say about his cam. and concealment (the C&C stage). After all, it him who is going to fail the course if it's crap and it's him who's going to get the chop later if he ain't learned his C&C lesson. They spend ages gathering together all the bits of stuff needed. And while a 'SUITS, Scarecrow' (as they were called) might be a basis, it's the afterthought and a good ground recce that dictates the rest.

Going back to the old face-veils Gil. I seem to recall that when they came in to the QM's they were quite large, approx 1 sq yard of material. FAR to big for the average crunchie who cut it into two and made a couple of cravattes or neck warmers etc etc. But the snipers kept them as large sheets. If you just drape a face veil over your bino/Sct Reg or rifle scope lenses you can still scan while hiding the reflection

[Gil Boyd]

Peter,
Don't remember them coming in that large, but clearly remember the camo faceveils were like rocking horse ****, and everyone valued their small piece around their necks, in our Regiment anyway.
The snipers often favoured the old hessian lorry cam nets with the 3" squares and cut them to a decent size, utilising the tufted frayed rope in various shades that made up a Ghillie suit from a starting point. It was easier to pack fresh cam into as well. That is what it was really, the sacking/hessian was a starting point, as you moved through various ground, you adapted and improved the foliage to correspond to the terrain you operated in.
Not an easy thing to do as a grunt let alone a trained sniper!!

[enfield303t]

Isn't that a punishable offence ?

Only IF you get caught.

[bennyboy21]

An old thread I know but this is infact an original wartime produced item, I have had one near identical but for slight difference to the makers label since the 1970s. mint unissued and 1945 dated. made from multi weave cord identical to that of the early/mid war British made woven helmet nets and this in camouflage! one important note is the stink of anti-rot proofing fluid used on this type of cord. anyone familiar to wartime British helmet nets and similar will know this smell well and pretty much impossible to replicate. As already stated the fact that we have photographs of these in use dating from 1944 kind of spell it out. not issued on mass but certainly a genuine article.

[GeeRam]

An old thread I know but this is infact an original wartime produced item, I have had one near identical but for slight difference to the makers label since the 1970s. mint unissued and 1945 dated. made from multi weave cord identical to that of the early/mid war British made woven helmet nets and this in camouflage! one important note is the stink of anti-rot proofing fluid used on this type of cord. anyone familiar to wartime British helmet nets and similar will know this smell well and pretty much impossible to replicate. As already stated the fact that we have photographs of these in use dating from 1944 kind of spell it out. not issued on mass but certainly a genuine article.

Yes, I know of a big collector and author on the subject who has one in his collection as well, obtained in an unissued state probably nearly 40 years ago when he used to work for a well known south coast surplus dealer.

I believe these were preferred use in summer by those that chose to resort to wearing the denim working BD style work coveralls as lightweight summer wear if they could get hold of them.
Others chose to wear the lightweight camo'd windproof top and over-trousers instead, with the normal camo face veil ..... but for some troops there was a reluctance in Normandy to wear these so as to avoid be mistaken for SS troops wearing full peas-pattern or Italian camo smocks and trousers in the belief that anyone wearing full camo must be a German....and thus a target from their own side.

[browningautorifle]

one important note is the stink of anti-rot proofing fluid used on this type of cord.

I had sections of netting I tried to wash that smell out of and it took several washing in hot water and soap with softener to get it out for use. Yes, unmistakable.