K11 serial number

[gunsaholic]

Hello all. I picked up a K11 carbine and am having trouble figuring out the year by the serial number. The serial number is 8992 with no letter in font of the number. I looked online but all I found was some info in German which I can't decipher. Anyone have a list that is clear?

Information

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[Aragorn243]

Sounds like you have an 1889/1900 short rifle produced in 1905.

[gunsaholic]

This is where I was getting confused when I tried looking up the serial number. I was told it was a K11 and it has the 1500 meter rear sight as opposed t the 1200 meter sight that the 1900 short rifle supposedly had. It has the top hand guard that extends beyond the rear sight to the front of the breech like the K11. Also the previous owner was shooting the GP11 ammo.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Aragorn is correct. You have a "Kurzgewehr 00" a.k.a. K00 = Short Rifle Model (19)00
Made in 1905 (1905 serial numbers were 7801 - 9300)
Most of these were later converted to the K11 configuration, without altering the numbers, and were then designated K00/11 - so the information from the seller was half-right. It ought to take the GP11 ammo.*** If reloading, rather go for a lighter load out of respect for your shoulder and an old mechanism!
I recommend that you somehow manage to post a photo, so that we can all be quite sure what you have.


***But absolutely nobody, especially me, is going to guarantee that! GP11 ammo was rated at 45000psi. the older GP90 at 38000psi.

[gunsaholic]

Here are some pics. I'm not sure why the red type tape is around the forend. It's not loose and there's no cracks. The barrel, receiver and mag numbers match. I didn't remove the hand guard etc. to check for a number in the wood. There is a number on top of the stock near the buttplate. Don't know what that signifies.

[Patrick Chadwick]

"There is a number on top of the stock near the buttplate. Don't know what that signifies."

Swiss rifles issued to the cantonal reserve forces were marked on the top of the butt. The number butt probably has two letters to indicate which canton, e.g. BE 12345 is rifle number 12345 of the Canton of Bern.

The K11-style backsight, with a leaf calibrated up to 1500 meters indicates that it is indeed a modified short rifle, as the number suggested.
As to ammo, GP11 ammo was rated at 45000psi. the older GP90 at 38000psi. Whether or not the "upgrading" to a K11 configuration also meant that it would now take GP11 ammo is something I cannot answer. Rather go cautiously!

"I'm not sure why the red type tape is around the forend."

According to "Guisan" on swissrifles.com, this is just a loop of tape that indicated that the rifle was accepted for a shooting match (tested trigger pull, no extra bedding etc. - who knows?). It is not a warning. Guisan is the authority on Swiss rifles and IMHO you don't need to start looking for 2nd and 3rd opinions. He suggests that you quite simply remove it, but may have to live with a reddish stain on the wood (as is indeed the case here). As it is already damaged, I would remove it completely.

[gunsaholic]

Thanks for the info. Clears up a lot of things. I guess the only real "if" still is what ammo the upgrade qualified for. I don't know how often the previous owner fired it, but he was using GP11 with no issues. Of course 2 wrongs don't make a right!!

[gunsaholic]

Anyone know what all the conversion consisted of? I notice this rifle still has the old style bolt with the lugs at the rear.

[Aragorn243]

My opinion, do not fire this with GP11. The upgrades were designed to allow for use of the new GP11 ammunition but the original bolts and barrels were retained. Functionally, they are to be the same as the K11 but without replacing the barrel or receiver I can't see how the pressure rating would be increased. All pre-1911 rifles were authorized to fire GP11 only in wartime emergencies so while the rifles might be safe to use this, for how long who knows. I think you're playing with fire. The rear lug bolt is one of the weak points that were corrected in the K11.

Great book on these is For Collectors Only Swiss Magazine Loading Rifles 1869-1958. This particular modification is not listed and is probably lumped in with the 1889/11 conversions.

[gunsaholic]

Yes, I think I would agree with not shooting the GP11 ammo. I sent the seller an email and he said he has shot Norma hunting loads, PPU and the GP11 ammo. Of course I don't know how many rounds but I think I'll play it safe.