Kicking the Black Dog.

[muffett.2008]

It looks like my old Regimental Association has found a new role for me.
Attended the Funeral of one of the ex CO's, and found myself baby sitting a young lad recently returned from over there.
He was in a bit of a bad way, Alchohol certainly wasn't helping.......gave him the same talk that my old boss gave to me when they carted me home and put me back together again.
Trouble is they seem to overlook the mind, they can fix the body and forget about the rest.

Having been there myself, booze, bad behaviour and broken relationships.........took 40+ years to get my head straight..........still have bad nights and all my mates have chopped themselves, they reckon I was fairly placed to give this lad the chat.
I can't live his life, but I did impart what I could about mine.......hope it helps(bloody black dog, should kill it) and I will follow up, got him interested in some of the activeties we used to use to dull the brain..........time will tell.

But there are so many of the new breed coming home, having seen and done things that young ones that age should not be exposed to, suicide is at an all time high in the services.....stupid politicians keep sending them and just throw them on the scrap heap when they are brought home.
We need to send the pollies first....if they survive, maybe we might follow.

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[CINDERS]

I think allot more has to be done to understand the mental trauma from being deployed to an area where you do not know who the enemy is. My B/In law cannot stand the news helicopter when he hears it as it brings back memories of his Asian holiday.
Politicians are the artful dodgers look how they duck and weave from pertinent questions also in question time at parliament its like a chook pen when the slops are turfed in, so much wing flapping and squawking........

I watched a program on shell shock and how little it was understood in WWI and will tell you some of what was contained in the program;
A) One of them could not get up off the ground he was like a spastic fish flopping around on the concrete
B) Another kept opening & shutting his mouth with bulging eyes Why! because he bayoneted a German soldier through the mouth
C) Another chap when shown an officers Kepi the soldier went into hysterics of fear
D) When bomb was shouted another dove under the bed and shook in absolute fear
E) Finally another who could not walk as it looked like he was stepping on hot coals so supported by the Drs with electrical leads stuck to his lower back delivering shocks he staggers down the ward.
His capacity to even walk was nil later on in the documentary he staggers into view in uniform with a walking stick just able to walk but he is twitching and shaking all over.

In WWI one bombardment our chaps were in they were coping 1,000 Arty shells/hr what a horrendous nightmare that would have been.
We move years forward to when General Patton slapped that soldier who was suffering from shell shock, all those years later and it still went pretty much untreated.
And now we have conflicts which come into the camps themselves with rogue soldiers shooting those that protected them, how do you cope with that strain 24/7
It is totally different set of rules now but the politicians have to ensure the vets get the help they need and keep them together and not in the to hard basket.
And as a side note they need to help our farmers as well because allot of those poor buggers are stepping out of life as well. And if you do not have primary industry then that's about it as you will not be eating or clothed, right back to hunter gatherer days.

(In reference to Patton I used it just as an example and not belittling the General)

[browningautorifle]

After I took my release in '08, the office for operational stress injuries wanted me to become a counselor for the returning injured. Although like Muffet says, the old hand chatting with the new man can help because you can give them first hand comfort...I don't think I could do it all my life and every day. I think it would wear on me. Also, living in the past is the greatest part of what keeps one in that mess. We don't seem to be helping our veterans much here either. But I'll say this for sure, because I've been around long enough to watch it...there's WAY more done now than there used to be. If we hadn't started with Yugo in the '90s and all that came after our vets would still be ignored. For us, that was the big change. I was the first one to go through the hoops because I'd released regular force and re-upped reserve to get the benefits. They didn't even know what to do with me so that took some doing. At least it paved the way for those that followed me. The problem is they have to stay the course to get help, many won't and don't have the patience. All part of the symptoms...no patience, anger, inability to deal with stress, crowds...self medicating with drugs and alcohol...

[Bob Womack]

Interestingly enough a friend of mine, a U.S. Navy doctor, told me that they had discovered that Patton's prescription was basically right. These days if a guy shows up at the field hospital saying he's unable to take it they give him a warm meal, a clean bunk for the night, and send him back to the line. Why? According to my doctor friend, because a man who can't take it, fails, and is sent home is often permanently broken by the experience and can't live with himself for the rest of his life. Now, when they get back they go into PTS counseling.

Bob

[Peter Laidler]

That's a brave opinion to put up Bob.......... We're in the midle of a political election here and several weeks ago a VERY eminent medical Psychologist/Psychiatrist put forwards in a newspaper article a notion to this effect, adding that the statistics seem to show that combat or other PTSD stress seems to be to blame only after things have actually GONE wrong in the persons life whereas in the real psychological world of his profession, sufferers/families etc seek help BEFORE things go wrong or certainly reach crisis point. It's as if some of the supposed stress is cited/quoted by the defenders of the accused person as an excuse for criminal wrongdoing. The expert was shouted down........, by the charities supporting the stressed!

Much more to it than that of course including pertinent questions and the like

Our newspaper bin has gone now but will see if it's still on-line. But thought provoking..........

[Bob Womack]

Well I wouldn't go as far as to say that those who experience PTS do so because they have failed before they experience stress. My friend, a psychologist, simply noted the cause and effect thing: if a soldier is unable to fulfill his duty and is sent home, he usually becomes a humpty-dumpty: all the kings soldiers and all the kings men (psychologists) can't put him back together again and he never regains his self-esteem. However, according to my friend, if they hold his nose to the grindstone and make him face it, his chances of emerging with his self-esteem intact are overwhelmingly improved. He may be killed, but if he isn't, facing his fears is much better for him. Of course, Patton used the same psychological method on himself: He was scared of seeing a bullet coming right towards his face so he forced himself into front-line battle in order to face that fear.

Bob

[browningautorifle]

I find most of the opinions about PTSD are given by people that don't have it. It's like an unskilled laborer telling you how to do your job. I did my full time and only got diagnosed at the very end. Then they said to me "But you've been operating for 30 years like this"...like that was an excuse or a pass. Having a man rattle along isn't the best thing for the situation. By pressing him back into battle, he will likely get killed and then you don't have a problem any more. If he makes it out, things will be much worse.

Anywayzzz, I'm done here. This is one where I feel if you aren't affected and you aren't a Psychiatrist, you don't know. You're just opinionated. And I've heard enough public clap trap about this one.

[Peter Laidler]

I realise that yoiu comment ain't against anyone in particular BAR and I waited until there was a sort-of other side view before I mentioned the newspaper article view. But he did accept that it DOES affect plenty of people to a lesser or greater extent (we now have ambulance men here claiming it for the gruesome scenes at accidents.....) but the greater proportion of sufferers quietly take the treatment. While those he rails about don't take the treatment and use it as an excuse when things in their lives go pear shaped.

[Paul S.]

Looking back on my experiences, Vietnam, etc., I'll say this: the human mind is a very complex, very unique thing. They are, at least so we are told, the product of biology, nurture, experience, education, and heaven only knows what else. That said, no two of us is going to react the same way to the same experiences. My reaction to what I did and saw during my time in combat and how I dealt with it mentally, emotionally and intellectually, was mine and mine alone.

What I'm trying to say here is I don't think there is one solution to shell shock, battle fatigue or PTSD - all the same thing really.

Some of us, like me, who had a family history WWI WWII Korea, Malaya, Vietnam, of experience understood what war is and were able to use that to at least understand to some degree that what we went through was a common human event and we were not alone in what we felt, how we felt, what we thought and how we thought.

Faith in God, or perhaps faith in the righteousness of the cause gave - or gives, some comfort. But that - faith, I believe, has to be there and be strongly held long before the events to offer real benefit.

All I can say now, looking back, is that we who have been through the mill need to be there for our 'younger brothers'. We need to be there offering an ear, sharing our experience, letting them know they are not alone in all this.

[Paul S.]

I need to add that I think the worst thing we and they can do is live or keep trying to relive the past. Living in the past, living on memories is stagnation. Focusing on the future gives us a way forward, it creates motion physically and emotionally, and leads us to a new life.