K31 Dies for 7.5x55 Swiss

[Wineman]

The dies that load 1911 etc. work fine for a K31 but not the converse. The ones I have are LEE both Full length and Collet neck sizing. I have found that you can not size a K31 fired case too much. Too little and you work the rifle too hard, slamming the bolt home. What is the better deal, K31 operating rod or a few brass cases? The K31 specific dies are fine, but as Parashooter said, it is a solution looking for a problem. If you buy a 1911 or 96/11 rifle, you will need the earlier type of die.

Dave

[Bruce_in_Oz]

This would indicate one or more things:

1. The Swiss undertook a MASSIVE workshop programme to update the hundreds of thousands of G and K-11s in service to accommodate "later" ammo of the same designation for the K-31.

2. CIP have stuffed up.

3. Lee have stuffed up and not done their homework.

4. GP-11 cases are made to be a bit of a "racing fit" in the older chambers and 'perfect" for the K-31.

5. Something else is afoot.

Anyone have the data for the chambers in the StG-57 and Mg-51? Yes, I know they are kinky, fluted jobs (16 flutes as I recall, as opposed to twelve in a H&K), but The Swiss fielded EVERYTHING from the 96/11 to the Stg57 simultaneously for well over two decades. Even the advent of their 5.56 beasties has not yet seen the total demise / selling off of the older 7.5 rifles. The MG-51 is still around, also to be found in 7.62 NATO.

[Wineman]

Bruce,

1) My research is that the shoulder area of the K31 is wider than the earlier rifles. Why this was done I do not have the data. Maybe they analyzed the WW1 data and thought that trench mud might muck up the precise tolerances and made the chambers "sloppy" to accommodate dirt etc when designing the K31? Given that the ammunition was already in use for 20 years, and there were plenty of older and even war use only really old rifles that would chamber the existing ammunition, a new size was not instituted to match the K31. Somewhat like firing a 38 special in a 357 magnum, works just fine, although more like a 38 Super in a 38 Colt ACP pressure wise for the really early rifles.

2) CIP not likely to mess up, one GP-11 and that's it (excluding blanks, grenade rounds etc.).

3) Lee F/L dies load ammo that matches (as close as possible) the original size of the GP-11 (not sure if the - is needed?). This means that my reloads would work in G96/11, K11, 1911 rifle, K31 and during their Swiss reserve use in a war emergency the earlier rifles that used GP90, GP 90/03 and GP 90/23 (not today in these rifles unless hand loaded to the proper specs).

4) GP-11 fits all chambers. Reloads using a K31 specific die probably will not chamber in the earlier rifles.

5) Nothing I know is afoot except that "working the brass" is an internet, bar stool, or "I know more than you" recitation that has little basis in fact. Does brass work harden? You bet. Is it a problem in a K31? Not in my limited experience. My full length sized nny (Prvi) brass having eight reloads using the LEE F/L dies and no neck or shoulder cracking and one anneal after five cycles. I can tell you that neck sizing K31 fired brass at full power will not work like it would in a Springfield 30-06, SMLE 303 British or Kar98k Mauser. One loading maybe and then it is a hard slam to get the bolt to close properly. Not what I really want to do, tough on me and the rifle.

I can not comment on later Swiss 7.5x55 chambered weapons. Probably like the K31, shoot the ammo and throw the brass away. I don't know if modern military units would reload fired brass, probably not.

Dave

[Bruce_in_Oz]

I don't know if modern military units would reload fired brass, probably not.

I vaguely recall that the Swedes had a programme of reloading their 6.5 x 55 brass as "practice ammo" and with "gallery loads" at one stage. Don't have a clue about anybody else.

My Privi 7.5 Swiss brass has been around the block quite a few times as well. I ran one small batch through my K-11 and then the Lee FLS dies 8 times before I spotted the first tiny neck crack. It has proven to be quality merchandise. I also torture it that extra bit by using the Lee "Factory Crimp" die for positive retention.

Basic drill now; ALWAYS inspect the cases before reloading, usually anneal after 6 firings.

[Wineman]

Bruce,

Ed Harris said that his research showed that USA National guard units did reload short range practice and "guard" ammo. In the 1930's when the M1 ammo (173 grain boat tail modeled after the Swiss BT) came into use it began to overshoot the ends of the NG ranges. Well that was what it was supposed to do, shoot accurately for a much longer range than the M1906 150 grain ammo. The answer was apparently the M2 Ball 150's. The AP 168's were probably the best of the lot: heavy enough to shoot far, but not quite as far as the M1.

Dave

[toolness1]

I use the LEE dies for the K11, 1911, and 96/11

My reloads using the Hornady K-31 specific sizer will NOT chamber in anything but the K31. They get stuck pretty bad. Found this out the hard way at the range. (This was an accident, I hadn't properly labeled the loads as having been loaded with the Hornady die set)

The Hornady sizer works the brass less, so I do use it for all my K31 loads. I figure the brass will last a little longer if it isn't worked as much. If I am wrong, no harm done. It doesn't cost me anything, and it takes less force to size the brass. Less work done on my part

If I take a case that was fired in the K31 and size it with the LEE die, MAN, I can really tell that it works it a lot more.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Maybe the Swiss decided that NOBODY picks up their brass on the two-way rifle range and decided to opt for guaranteed "reliability" over the wishes of hard-core reloaders and technical "purists".

I seem to recall that there was a certain amount of fooling around with .303 chambers during the First Great Unpleasantness as well.

Oddly enough, they had to deal with TWO types of ammo (Mk6 and Mk7) in the rifles, on top of appalling environmental conditions. See also the Ross Rifle saga.

[gwpercle]

CH4D makes dies specifically for the K-31. They are listed as 7.5 X 55 Swiss K-31. The dies for 1911's rifles and K-11 carbine's are listed as 7.5 X 55 Swiss. Great company, been around a long time.
If you have any questions, E-mail or phone Dave Davison , the owner, and he can answer any question about reloading dies. Super nice people and a pleasure doing business with them. I own a lot of CH dies and they are my preferred. Call them before you order and they can advise you which ones are proper. Buying the wrong anything is a bummer.
If you want a perfect fit to your rifle , just send 3 or 4 cases fired from your rifle and Dave will make the die to match the tolerances of your rifles chamber and you can then reload perfect ammunition without overworking the brass.
Gary

[smlemon]

Having tried both the RCBS and Lee dies, they don't work in a K31.

RCBS techs confirmed their dies are cut for the 1889 spec and the Lee dies will not accept a brand case, not to mention one fired in my mint K31.

The Lee collet die (neck sizing) works fine with my K 31

I note that Hornady makes at least three different spec dies for sale on Amazon.

[Parashooter]

Lee and RCBS dies work great in my K31's. Maybe you need better lube (castor oil), or to do a bit of polishing on the sizer interior. New dies these days are often a bit rough.

. . . and the Lee dies will not accept a brand case . . .

Please explain what you mean by "a brand case". Makes no sense as written.