Collector restoring SMLE MkIII* HT

[SMLE Aussie]

Hi everyone - I'm a collector of British Commonwealth militaria and a long time member of the Historical Arms Collectors here in Australia.

I have recently acquired a rusty SMLE No1 MkIII (1917 Lithgow) that turned out being a genuine HT. It had been placed in secure store by the previous owner while in hospital for 10 months, but the store had been flooded and his entire collection remained there under water. I fortunately happened upon it 30mins after having been brought into a gun shop I frequent - it still had water in the action! The wood looked promising, so I bought it for $100 with the intention of removing the action and later swapping it for one in good condition. No-one had noticed the 'H' on the butt as the bolt was rusted open and had covered it. Upon finally removing the bolt I found the 'H'. Light wire brush on the serial number and sure enough, genuine Lithgow HT sniper.

Anyway, I'm now committed to restoring it, but have quite a few questions for SMLE experts on the forum!

I have managed to get it apart, and the stock is coming along nicely (3 boils, steaming, restoring oil...). Have acquired a replacement heavy barrel, and am stripping the rust off old parts with molasses. I want to restore the nose cap as it has matching numbers - but it is badly pitted. Ultimately, I need advice on things like coating. Original SMLE snipers were painted olive drab over the blueing - but what parts? I can't seem to find out if it was just the action and barrel, or also the nosecap, trigger guard, rear sight etc.

Anyway, I look forward to discussing my not so little project!

Cheers
Lee

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[browningautorifle]

We do have a thread here about de-rusting using reverse electrolysis...this one would be hard. Once you have pitting that is. I'd probably go with a glass bead and blue to refurbish but that won't "Solve" the pitting and woodwork problems. It will get the rust off though, so you have a start point and can see where you are.

[SMLE Aussie]

Hi Jim - thanks for that, I'll go and have a search.

I received some carbon graphite electrodes in the mail today actually - so I am keen to give the electrolysis a go. I had the nose cap, rear sight protectors and trigger guard in molasses and water (1:7) for about 4-5 days as a bit of an experiment - I figured those parts couldn't get any worse. I was quite surprised at the results. Certainly removed the rust, but of course the pitting is the problem. Anyway, I have spent quite some time hand filing the nose cap and have been very surprised at the results thus far. I would say about 80% of the pitting is now gone, and I am hoping to get rid of some more. I'll then polish it with 320 abrasive paper and see how it looks - hopefully I'll have it to a point where it can be glass beaded and then blued. Won't get rid of all the pitting, but hopefully it won't look like it spent 10months wet when I am finished with it. I'll post a pic when I'm happy with it. I was thinking of trying electrolysis on the action.

Cheers
Lee

[browningautorifle]

You might have to remove a great deal of material before you're done with the nose cap...yes, the action will be difficult because you can't remove much. Pics as you go would be good, we're always interested in how this proceeds...

[Peter Laidler]

To be really honest, while it's fairly pitted and rusty, we used to see plenty of No5's, shotguns and L1A1's like that in our base workshops in Malaya, especially under the woodwork. But once they'd been bead blasted and sent through the phosphating plant they were as good as gold (subject to a barrel inspection of course). Ours were then painted hard black and baked in the oven. If yours is going to be painted matt khaki and baked(?) anyway, then why bother hiding its past? It is what it is and the slightly pitted surface is a part of its history. EVERYTHING made of steel is going to go the same way eventually......... And some - not me you understand although I sympathise with this point of view - would argue that by filing and linishing it all out it smacks of a bit of dishonesty.

And here's another point to ponder........ All this filing and linishing is removing metal. And you can't put it back.

Been there, done that, seen loads of them. The original finish is lost. Just bead blast, phosphate and paint. It is then protected for good and you've saved another sniper rifle
Pete the Pom. REME Armourer 4 and 8 RAR

[browningautorifle]

anyway, then why bother hiding its past?

Good point Peter...

[SMLE Aussie]

Hi Peter - I do somewhat agree with you, though after 10 months in water it needed some treatment (and the barrel was absolutely cactus) - it is a balance between restoration and conservation. I'm happy just getting it to a point where it is presentable, and more importantly, back to a shooting state. To be honest, at $100 I am really treating it as an opportunity to try different ideas and techniques, hence joining Milsurps. I certainly am not trying to make it out to be something it isn't. I had actually bought another nose cap, but was keen to see how this would come up given, once some rust was removed, it had matching numbers. Can't take the pits from around the number as I wouldn't have one! I'm just happy to have saved it from being cut up (which was where it was heading). Also happy to have something that didn't cost a fortune to get a chance to learn on.

As for coating, that, for me, is the question. The action and barrel should khaki or drab, but I'm not certain how they originally treated the nose cap, trigger guard, outer band, rear sight and rear sight protector should be finished. From what I could tell when I removed the parts (under the rust), the undersides were all painted, but I couldn't tell if all of these parts were originally left blued on the outside or had also been painted? Same question for the mounts and rings (assuming I can ever find a set!). Would like to faithfully restore it... though I had been even thinking getting a the action and barrel Cerakoted. Any advice would be greatly welcome! Very much appreciating all your input.

Lee

[mmppres]

can not wait to see pictures
how does the molasses work on the rust

[SMLE Aussie]

Hi Mike - well, I can honestly say I was very happy with the molasses. It certainly removed the rust to show the pitting - a great first step. Can't say how it compares to electrolysis, but I will give that a try on the second rifle I got from the rusty collection and compare the results.

You can see the condition of the parts, particularly the nose cap, before putting it in the molasses an water. Ratio was 1 part molasses to 7 parts water (500ml and 3500ml). Not much happened for the first two days, however, I had read that it can be worth giving the parts a light scrub to remove the layers of converted rust before putting them back. Simply used nylon pot scrubbing pads and rubbed lightly. The rust on the surface had become black, and a lot of this rubbed off to expose more rust underneath. Put all the pieces back in for a couple more days. On the 5 day I removed, rinsed and dried the nose cap. I was concerned it would start to show some surface rust fairly quickly as some people had noted. No problems. You can see the nose cap after rinsing and drying but before filing. If you look closely you can see lots of pitting, but no rust. Any rust residue had been neutralised and turned black - which made filing them out easier. The rear sight protector was more heavily rusted and took another two days of soaking. It was heavily pitted but I have managed to remove a lot of the light stuff, and it is now useable as well.

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You can see the nose cap after filing. I was very surprised how it started to come up. It would be virtually impossible to remove all of the deep pitting, but my goal was to get it to a point where I would be happy to utilise it, still trying to keep most of the original parts. You can see the matching number - I must say if I hadn't seen the '74' through the rust I may not have bothered.

Next job is to finish it off with abrasive paper (320 grit) and remove the filing marks. I'll polish it like a shoe so as to try and get it looking a little like the original grain, which ran around the cap. The filing was not so heavy as to remove some of the original milling and filing marks. You can also see that the much of the original paint is still intact on the inside!

The magazine was almost rusted through, so I have left that in the molasses to see what happens. I have now put the receiver in and so far am very happy with how it is going. I'll post pics when it is out.

Anyway, hope this is of some use.

Cheers
Lee

[browningautorifle]

I was hoping your process was easier than say, navy jelly but sadly no. Looks like there'll still be some pits at the end, which is fine...