Possible USMC 1903?

[browningautorifle]

No sweat, that's why we're here. There are guys here that will fill in all the blanks if you wait a minute...

ISBN for the book I have is 0-9603306-1-5 Cut and paste that, be prepared for heart failure when you see what they want for these little books...

[Richardwv]

There has been a lot of debate about shooting low# 03's. If it was me I would not shoot it. Even the military in the 1930's tried to scrap all low # 03's. Research it!

While it is true that the Army scraped (and Bannerman bought and rebuilt) low # 03s, the Marine Corps did not. As an "oh by the way" quite a number of low # 03s were on Guadalcanal. The records of failures in that time period were compiled and the low # ones were close to twice as likely to fail as the high number ones....but neither approached the odds of being struck by lightening (and although you wouldn't think it by the way folks talk, the high # ones had a failure rate as well.....as do virtually all heavily used military weapons). Since Army scraped them and the Marine Corps (and most of Navy) didn't, a WWII issued to US military low # rifle was 95% certain to have been Marine Corps. Many of these were reworked when turned in by the Marine Corps and became part of the anti-communist military aid shipments to Greece. So the low number ones that were returned from Greece not too long ago were likely MC rifles as well.

[firstflabn]

While it is true that the Army scraped (and Bannerman bought and rebuilt) low # 03s, the Marine Corps did not. As an "oh by the way" quite a number of low # 03s were on Guadalcanal....Since Army scraped them and the Marine Corps (and most of Navy) didn't, a WWII issued to US military low # rifle was 95% certain to have been Marine Corps. Many of these were reworked when turned in by the Marine Corps and became part of the anti-communist military aid shipments to Greece. So the low number ones that were returned from Greece not too long ago were likely MC rifles as well.

I'm the head cheerleader for encouraging looking at the scattered data available to see what can be sniffed out, but what I see here is a series of unsupported conclusions. When using terms like 'many or 'quite a number' or 'likely', the poster owes it to the reader to explain what that means and how it was determined. How many is 'many' - 37, 152, 14 kagillion?

Further, the assertion is made that the army scrapped something approaching 100% of their low number '03s. I am certain that is incorrect, but would like to understand the thought process leading to the 95% claim.

New info pops up all the time, so I'm willing to be convinced, but claims such as the above either need to be supported by facts or identified up front as wild guess or opinion.

[Rick the Librarian]

Richard,

The Army did not scrap all their LN M1903s. While I don't have a specific figure, only those rifles with LN receivers that were sent in for major overhaul between 1928 and 1940 were so-treated. I doubt if "95%" of those LN rifles surviving were issued to the Navy and USMC. Undoubtedly a fair percentage but not to that extent.

[John Beard]

For those who may be interested, here are some hard verifiable numbers and observations:

Total quantity of low number rifles manufactured: 1,085,000

Total quantity of low number rifles issued to Navy, USMC, and sold to NRA members, etc: probably no more than 100,000

Total quantity of low number rifles remaining in the Army: 1,085,000 – 100,000 = 985,000

Total number of low number rifles scrapped by the Army after 1927: approximately 250,000.

Total quantity of low number rifles remaining in Army inventory at the beginning of WWII: 985,000 – 250,000 = 735,000

The Army incurred combat losses during WWI. So the actual quantity was somewhat lower than 735,000, but still very substantial.

Richardwv’s assertion that the CMP Greek low number rifles were almost all USMC issue is erroneous. I worked at the CMP and saw hundreds of Greek low number rifles. Indeed, one of my jobs was to grind off the striker points so the low number rifles couldn't be fired. A few Greek low number rifles were USMC issue, but most were not. I had trouble finding one to buy.

For what it's worth.

J.B.

[Calif-Steve]

JB--Thank you. I recall in the early 1990's a huge pile of bolt guns came out of China. Many M1903 rifles were included in this bolt gun deal. I talked to one of the dealers involved and he said the US Army shipped China large numbers of Low Number rifles. They must have been in depots in WWII and they were shipped to China as aid to our ally. I have heard many Low Numbers were returned by the Greeks, as well. Hardly surprising as the Army likely was happy to move them along.