Recovered Lee-Enfield Nose caps - A question

[RRPG]

Hi all

My first post here so bear with me please!

I am chairman of the WW2 Relic Retrieval & Preservation Group in the UK, and we dig various sites to recover and preserve WW2 relics.

I have had access to a British army dump for a number of years now, and it has always produced some remarkable finds. My last visit was no exception, with 27 Lee-Enfield nose caps being recovered, among many other important WW2 relics.

My question is simple.

Can anyone tell me why some of these nose caps have non-standard bayonet lugs!!??

Thanks

RRPG

Pictures show what was recovered during my dig, along with pictures of some of the items after cleaning. I have included the Lee-Enfield nose caps and I am sure you can spot the unusual ones!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[limpetmine]

Some nose caps were modified to accept the Japanese rifle bayonet. That what the one in the center, bottom one looks like to me. Also the Turks modified a number of rifles to accept the Mauser bayonet, in the teens and 20's, from what I've read.
I wonder that the year of internment was for the area you're digging in. Seems odd that they would be there.

[Roger Payne]

I'm speaking from memory so am not absolutely sure, but I agree with limpetmine re the two nose caps; bottom centre & top left. They look to have been modified to take the Arisaka bayonet. Could they be reject parts from weapons that were lost to the Japanese early in WW2 & then repossessed by us, the non-standard (& unusable) parts then being replaced & disposed of. Just an idea but it might fit. Does RRPG have any knowledge of the history of the site that might support or refute this?

[RRPG]

I do have full knowledge of the site I am digging, but I am afraid that I can't give you that knowledge. The walls have ears!!! Any knowledge about the site could possibly give the location away to nighthawkers, (or black diggers, whichever you wish to call them), and the site would be decimated within weeks.

However, what I can say is that it is distinctly possible that nose caps modified to accept a Arisaka bayonet would be at this site, especially given the fact we have also found Arisaka bayonets there as well, (although only two to date).

Many thanks for your input. It is most welcome. If you're interested, I can post some more of the finds from the site, that include some very unusual items for a British army dump in the UK, (such as Garand oil bottles and combination tools, German 20mm magazines and rather unusual items such as an adapter for a P14 rifle to attach an SMLE grenade discharger cup)

[Eaglelord17]

Don't forget that the British ordered a bunch of Type 30 Arisakas for the Royal Navy so maybe they modified some of the No. 1 Mk. 3s they had to accept the Type 30 bayonets as there would have been some in stock?

[Roger Payne]

Sorry, RRPG, but I wasn't expecting you to give away the location of your site, just if you have any knowledge of its past that might support or refute the speculation about the Arisaka modified nose caps. I entirely understand what you mean about site security as I live on The Somme battlefields for part of the year & am quite active in WW1 battlefield archaeology.

[RRPG]

Thanks Roger. Sorry if I came across as rude or anything. It certainly wasn't my intention.

The problem with this site is that, by it's very nature, any information would narrow down the possibilities somewhat. All I can tell you is that, at some point shortly after the war ended, they dug a hole about 8 foot deep and roughly the size of a football/soccer pitch just outside the confines of the base, and chucked everything in it that was surplus to requirements. The fact that there is items other than of Allied origin in the pit always comes as a surprise, but is becoming less unexpected as time goes by!

For instance, these items came out of the very same dump, not 10 feet from where these nose caps were recovered, (pics below). Why they were in an army dump in the UK I suppose we will never know. Spoils of war maybe?

[Roger Payne]

Thanks RRPG, no offence taken. In fact the recovery of any old military relics, from either world war, be it a single bullet or a tank, I find absolutely fascinating. I guess you're well acquainted with 'After the Battle' magazine?!

[Warren]

And two lewis gun butt spade handles...Oh, if only they were salvageable!!!!!
I'll take a close look at some of the other kit later.
I totally agree with Roger on the bayonet lugs. The Royal Navy had a pile of Arisaka's and bayonets were modified for both the Lee Enfield and Arisaka ...
Where is Tony E when we need him....!!!

[RRPG]

The Lewis handles were indeed nice to find. You may have also noticed the odd aluminium clip in the picture with all the Springfield rifle sling buckles............used on the German water canteen to hold the cup in place!

I knew Tony E through another forum and had regular chats with him. I also sent him copies of some original RAOC lecture notes from 1943, (on foolscap paper with 'do not allow to fall into the hands of the enemy' typed across the top!), on 303 ammunition. I was given these by a gent after his father died and he had no interest in them. It amounted to hundreds of sheets of lecture notes. Anyway, I digress. I was very sad to hear about Tony. He was one in a million.

---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------

Sorry Roger, forgot to reply to you. Yes I am