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  1. #1
    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    1968 MP5 with no serial number

    Afternoon all,

    Not a Fal I know, but didn't know were to post this one!

    A few weeks back I bought a rare old spec deactivated early MP5 of 1968 manufacture... Itself an interesting piece.

    However this example has no serial number, or Germanicon proof markings, not removed, just never there!

    I have an idea it was provided to Enfield as a tool room sample prior to their license manufacture..

    It has all the correct early production features and the HK markings along the top rib are also correct.

    It was Birmingham Proofed in 1988 (this tallys with the closure of the Enfield site) and subsequently deactivated in 1990.

    Looking at the bore closely (clear slotted barrel) there is little to no signs of use and the original blue finish is almost pristine.

    Anyone seen any other examples un-serialed??

    Ideas anyone?Attachment 64413Attachment 64412
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    Legacy Member nzl1a1collector's Avatar
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    I can't help you out, but it's a lovely looking piece

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    I had one come over to my place in Gagetown NB once many years ago, along with a 550 Sig. The Sig was purchased by the owner at the Swissicon factory when he was posted to Germanyicon and the MP5 had been a Turkishicon production gun. No marks...just like that one. Same gun and it had no issues, just no marks. Apparently they didn't want to pay royalties or it was the only way they could produce them offshore...something like that...I think it said HK MP5 like that one, that was all.
    Regards, Jim

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    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    Thanks Jim, at last a lead! I shall start digging into Turkishicon production and see what I can turn up .. 1968 seems rather early for licensed production, I wonder when they started?

    I can't believe they were allowed to export/import firearms without a serial number being present .... the 3/68 has been used for the serial number on the documentation on mine!

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    Advisory Panel browningautorifle's Avatar
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    I suppose they could have produced a hand stamp set and commenced stamping...
    Regards, Jim

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    Morning chaps, well after a lot of digging I have discounted Turkey as the country of origin, It seems Turkey started G3 production in the 1970's but didn't start MP5 manufacturing until the 1980's.. All Turkishicon production ( from what I can tell) was the later type with the various updates including the scope fitting indent in the spine. So the search continues!

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    Ever thought of writing direct to H&K? It seems to me that this is an example of where the wisdom of the crowd ain't going to further this

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    Contributing Member mrclark303's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Laidlericon View Post
    Ever thought of writing direct to H&K? It seems to me that this is an example of where the wisdom of the crowd ain't going to further this
    Evening peter, already have, I had a prompt reply that was rather non committal... But at least they responded.

    I still awaid a response from the Royal Armouries collection..

    It would appear that this piece per dates licence production, so its back to the tool room pattern theory .... More digging required!
    Last edited by mrclark303; 02-20-2017 at 07:30 PM.

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    Many thanks to Doug for moving this from the graveyard and onto the SMG forum.

    This piece is still quite the mystery, I did have several conversations with various people within HK, both in Europe and the US.

    The HK offical line is that they never "under any circumstances" allow a firearm to leave any of their factories (or license manufacture partners) without a serial number and being properly documented.

    My pictures where initially met with scepticism by HK, once I provided detailed pictures, including the proof marks, they went silent on me...

    Draw your own conclusions there!

    The Leeds Armoury were extremely helpful and checked my MP5 against the examples in their wonderful collection.

    They also drew a blank, but agreed that the most likely scenario was that it started life as a toolroom sample and sent to ROF Enfield prior to UKicon licenced assembly and disposed of to the trade after the sites closure.

    Two further examples have also come to light, one in the US (I have a picture of) and another unconfirmed example in Germanyicon.

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    John, wish I could chop the barrel on my "Retro" GSG to same spec.......... but love my freedom too much. Did all the extras come with it?

    There was obvious a change in circumstances to there "official line" at some point.

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