1968 MP5 with no serial number

[Peter Laidler]

This last few threads has been very interesting because one small student project (in the days of L1A1';s and WO Dxxxxs and Col Txxxxx) on the design course was to illustrate to a convening Board of Enquiry how a fatal accident (not a REAL accident of course, just a mock-up to get the brain cells working.....) could not have occurred given the explanation. There were three groups. 1 group to give a written explanation. 1 group to give a blackboard/flip chart explanation while another gave an 'as-is' explanation using a sectioned breech block and carrier. It's simple to slot a BB but it's very difficult to cut or machine the carrier! Got to be annealed first and cut or ground carefully. Anyway............. I did something similar with an SA80 at Warminster and the 'working guts' of the demo rifle were in the lecture room when I left.

[browningautorifle]

Are we all still here - or have we all gone into a deep slumber?

No, no...I got you. I can see all this because I saw enough of it when teaching mechanism. I should have twigged when looking at the BB and the small angle at the bottom rear. It's not a vertical surface and would have answered our original muse.

[mrclark303]

One of the UK dealers sold a beautifully sectioned L85A1 a little while ago, it was a real work of art.

I was very tempted to acquire it to go along with my full length cut away No4 and L1A1, the three would have made a stunning wall display together!

It was however a lot of money and sold faster than I could convince the "Minister of Finance" that it was a sound investment!

We're many L85's sectioned, I have to say it's the only example I have seen.

I'll post some pics of the sectioned bolt carrier and bolt from my cutaway L1A1, as you say Peter, it looks like a devil of a job to section, this example has been beautifully done.

[tankhunter]

As ever Peter, a very concise and interesting lesson regarding the mechanical function and forces involved.

I've just gone through the function check with my cut away to follow your post, facinating stuff.

Many thanks John.

John, When we did our Class 1 Armourer upgrading courses back in the heyday. Of this Rifle. you HAD to KNOW all of this in your head. & then write it (As Peter has done) as an essay! AND you had to know this about EVERY in Service smallarm as well!

Just a snippet to illustrate this. you did NOT just pull the trigger!!!...The CORRECT version was: 'Rearward pressure of the trigger finger bearing against the centre/ slightly lower part of the trigger. Caused the trigger to rotate, around the trigger axis pin. This then'...........You get the jist?.......VERY in depth when you lay it all out in writing!......

[mrclark303]

As with Peters threads Mike, your knowledge (and the generously given knowledge by other armourers and gunsmiths) is also indepth and impressive and always appreciated.

Like many on here, I am constantly improving my knowledge of small arms, type and variants and developing an increasing understanding of the mechanical engineering that underpins the whole thing.

As a laymen, it's always facinating to learn something new about our chosen hobby, so thanks for sharing guys.

[Peter Laidler]

I think that there were 18 (some say 20 and another told me 21.....) of the skeletonised L86's done at Enfield. None at Nottingham as a matter of interest. I was going to do one for myself but never got around to it. Some were given to high ranking members of the Ord Board and trials team. With regards to whether they were deactivated, the answer is no. They were never (?) firearms and were made as skeletonised rifles. That's not strictly correct either. Wont bore you with technicalities