Lee-Enfield No.4 RARE Bolt Head size 4

[Fred24]

Hi guys, I recently picked up a new lee-enfield no.4 sporter that surprisingly have a size 4 bolt head. Any ideas what it could be worth ? It's clearly a 4, nothing else.


Let me know what you think about it.



Fred

Information

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[Ridolpho]

Fred24: Try measuring the length from front to rear surfaces. It may not be anything special as there is so much overlap between sizes. Recently bought a well used '42 Maltby with a #3 bolt-head that actually measures shorter than most of the #2s in my pile of parts. The longest 3# I have is 0.642inch.

Ridolpho

[Peter Laidler]

India made a No4 bolt head. It was never one of ours. There were some UK based trials to ascertain the viability of such a beast but I'll cut to the quick. Regardless of the manufacturer of the body, it was discovered the if a rifle needed a bolt head over a size 3 then the body was worn out to - and possibly beyond - the depth of the hardened locking shoulders. In any case, even a No3 bolthead was not permitted at Base workshop

[Beerhunter]

The only reason that any bolt heads are in short supply is the American fixation with head space!

[Roger Payne]

I have a 41 Matlby 4T with its original matching bolt, that came from ordnance stores (admittedly a long time ago) that is fitted with a '4' bolt head. Peter, correct me if I am wrong but I thought that, perhaps just in the early days, some rifles that would otherwise have been rejected, were fitted with a '4' bolt head (?? & likewise the '00') so as to permit the fielding of a serviceable rifle at a time of great need. The Maltby in question is still daubed with green cammo paint & does not display any of the features generally associated with Indian service.

[browningautorifle]

if a rifle needed a bolt head over a size 3 then the body was worn out to - and possibly beyond - the depth of the hardened locking shoulders.

So, in actual fact the bolt head the OP has isn't rare or valuable, but indeed an Indian and shows his rifle is almost not safe...or not a good candidate for shooting...?

[CINDERS]

I remember PL talking about the size 4 and I suppose it is correct but unless someone has an in the grease one to measure and we measure the one from that rifle who knows what it is it may be turned down to a size 2 bolt head.......

[Peter Laidler]

I would strongly disagree about your assumption of the No4 size bolt head on your rifle Roger. You can be rest assured that if there was ever a No4 size in our system then there would definately, as sure as god made little green apples, be mention of it in the technical instructions, SAI's or EMER's. If a No3 is absolutely taboo at Base workshop, meaning that no rifle will ever leave a Base workshop to go back to Ordnance or forwards to a unit with a No3 bolt head then it stands to reason that a rifle would not go from a factory to Ordnance with a 4.

As a little example, there was an ultra short size 00 bolthead machined down and so marked, from existing bolt heads introduced to cater for some tight headspaced 7.62mm barrels at factory. This bolt head was only available at the factory. This fact was noted in the REME Tech Instructions.

Don't be fooled into taking the size marked to indicate anything meaningful Cinders. No 4 rifle bolthead sizes are a bit like SLR locking shoulder sizes, Bren locking shoulder sizes, barrel nut sizes, and Burmese spitfires. Just something to ponder about when you find a smaller size is larger than the larger size!

[Brian Dick]

I have one #4 bolthead here that I kept for posterity. It's ROF Fazakerley manufacture, used condition and measures .639. I compared it to a nos, unfitted #3 which measures .636. As Peter mentions, the number stamped on the bolt head really means nothing. You can lay out ten of each number and they all measure differently.

[Peter Laidler]

Well, strike me down.......... That's is unbeliveable - if it is correct it would need proving against known records. Wish you'd shown me this enigma when I was there especially after all of the discussions we've all had about the No4 size on the forum.

Robbie Robertson headed the trial to introduce such a bolt head to save the wastage of apparently worn out rifles...............