Collecting and shooting Milsurps on the cheap

[Colonel Enfield]

the other milsurp that is common and cheap where i am is the .310 martini cadet. every gunshop that carries second hand rifles in my region has at least one still in original form.

brass isn't stupidly priced (all ammunition is comparatively expensive in Australia), with cast bullets i think it would be fairly cheap to reload.

i loved using a martini action when i last tried it, i like the way they look, but i have no idea what i'd use a .310 cadet for personally.

I'm told cost-wise they're not too bad to load for, but they're fiddly - something to do with the way the bullet it seated or lubricated or something. You're right that they're easy to obtain though - pretty much every gun shop I've ever been in in Australia has at least one. I usually advise new shooters to avoid them because you can't get factory ammo for them. There's one or two people making bespoke loaded ammo but it's not especially cheap.

I'm told they're good for shooting foxes and rabbits - more oomph than a .22 and longer range than a shotgun. Interestingly, I've heard quite a few have been rechambered for .357 Magnum over the years. I've never seen one but it would definitely be a fun plinking/target/small game rifle!

The price of ammunition in this country continues to surprise me, given there's a surprising number of shooters and not a huge variety of commonly encountered calibres. Even the stuff that's made here (.22, .223 and 7.62x51) costs a lot for some reason.

[CINDERS]

CE try buying a packet of .308 ADI Outback ammo with the Sirocco projie @$55.oo/Au for 20 rounds

[Colonel Enfield]

That was the sort of thing I was getting at - they make .308 ammunition here in Australia on a commercial (military) scale; it should be practically free (.20c a round or something max, IMHO). Instead it costs the same - or even more - than ammo imported from the other side of the planet.

[Seaspriter]

In regards to Canada vs US for prices, I find most milsurps stuff tends to be cheaper in the US. Everything just seems to be a bit cheaper, except oddly enough ammo at the moment

This is primarily because the Canadian dollar, which was at parity with the US dollar 2 years ago, has been devalued 25% against the US dollar. I know, as I am in Canada once a month on business. Makes for great value in Canada for the US citizen on a lot of other things if you can take advantage of the difference.

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How about the Milsurp Pistols?-- there seem to be quite a number under the $500 USD limit.

[Eaglelord17]

That was the sort of thing I was getting at - they make .308 ammunition here in Australia on a commercial (military) scale; it should be practically free (.20c a round or something max, IMHO). Instead it costs the same - or even more - than ammo imported from the other side of the planet.

Just because a government has a manufacturing facility and makes it in bulk doesn't mean it is cheap. In Canada we have IVI who makes ammo for the Canadian Forces. The military still pays 1.50$ a round of 7.62 NATO despite have a factory that makes it.

This is primarily because the Canadian dollar, which was at parity with the US dollar 2 years ago, has been devalued 25% against the US dollar. I know, as I am in Canada once a month on business. Makes for great value in Canada for the US citizen on a lot of other things if you can take advantage of the difference.

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How about the Milsurp Pistols?-- there seem to be quite a number under the $500 USD limit.

I live on the border so I am in the States usually every weekend, and at least once a month, but your prices are just lower (Gallon of milk is 2$, vs in Canada where we pay about 6 dollars, Gallon of gas is 2.60 vs about 4.80 dollars etc.). Even if we take out the dollar at the moment (just a couple years, year and a half, something like that) the dollar was on par with the US dollar, the prices of firearms in the US haven't shot up at quite the same rate. For example a M91 Carcano will run you anywhere from 300-400$ in Canada, vs the 200$ or so in some places of the States. Thinking on it there is very few firearms in Canada which are in the sub 200$ range anymore.

A fair bit of milsurp pistols are cheaper, I will give you that, but a fair bit has to do with laws. A all matching P08 Luger can be as low as 800$ in Canada, but that is due to the fact only a very few have the proper licence for them, and no one can acquire that licence anymore. The number of people capable of buying pistols in Canada is also lower than those that buy rifles (only 1 in 3 people who have a firearm licence have a restricted licence (basically for pistols with barrels longer than 4.2 inches, and some rifles), which works out to roughly 500,000 potential handgun buyers) which helps keep prices low. Plus the hassle turns people off buying pistols when you can get a rifle easier (for me, I only own 3 pistols, as it is a pain to deal with).

The other big reason milsurp pistols tend to be cheaper is that was what vets brought back. Technically Canadian vets weren't allowed to bring back firearms, so they smuggled pistols back primarily as they are easy to hide.

[Colonel Enfield]

It's not so much the local bulk manufacturing of ammo which I'd expect to bring the price down, it's the shipping costs. Dangerous Goods shipping costs a mint in this country and shipping anything to Australia inexplicably costs a fortune. I mean, I know the internet memes about Australia being full of dangerous/poisonous creatures just waiting to drop on unsuspecting Americans are funny, but I can't help but wonder if it's contributed to shipping costs which appear to be only slightly less than sending things to the International Space Station.

The vast disparity between what goods cost in Australia and what they cost elsewhere in the civilised world is colloquially known as "The Australia Tax" and is particularly egregious for things like software, music, movies (ie things which exist digitally and don't need to be "shipped" anywhere). There's been at least one parliamentary enquiry into it, but nothing much has changed as far as I'm aware.

Otherwise, it's interesting to note the similarity in costs you mention between Canada and Australia. Both countries have similar populations and valued currencies but unlike Australia, you'd think Canada would be able to enjoy the economies of scale of being close to the much larger US market - it's interesting to see that isn't the case.

On the upside, Canadians can purchase Norinco firearms, which I don't believe are available for import into the US.

[Aragorn243]

I do not believe there is a ban on Norincos. I've never wanted one but I see a lot of them for sale. Could have been in the most recent ban which stopped the SVT's.

Can't import our own Garands from Korea so it wouldn't really surprise me. The government hasn't figured out it actually owns them yet. They were on loan to Korea and not really for Korea to sell to US importers. CMP should be getting them.

Funny you mention the low prices on the little Martini's. They are pushing $500-$600 in the US and highly desired. Most were converted to 32-20 which involved reaming for the thicker rim. I have one which was my 3rd milsurp bought about 20 years ago. Unknown to me at the time as I wasn't really a collector, the stock had been butchered. I have since replaced it with a complete stock which matches the territory marked on the receiver but not the serial number. Kind of embarrassed but still grateful now, the only reason I bought it was because of the Kangaroo. I have shot it, one of the few milsurps that I actually have. It's a lot of fun

[WarPig1976]

I do not believe there is a ban on Norincos.

Unfortunately there is. George. H then Slick Willy though Executive orders. I don't care what the official reasons given are, it was done to protect U.S companies from cheap imports. What we see on the market now was all imported pre-ban.

[Aragorn243]

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware they were banned. I guess my next question would be after looking at current Gunbroker bids..........Are people freaking insane? Just because it's banned doesn't make it a quality piece worthy of breaking the bank over. There are plenty of good quality firearms out there without resorting to Norinco's and Norinco's rep was always like stated, "they are cheap". To me cheap and China don't equate with quality. Numerous bids well over $1000 for a civilian market AK. I don't get it.

[WarPig1976]

Yes, yes they are. Some of the prices on the regional classifieds we both visit are absolute proof.....