7mm Rolling Block HELP

[pcvando]

I have heard mixed stories and rumors...

I need to know if I can shoot modern 7mm Mauser ammo in my 1901 Remington Rolling block, chambered in 7mm Mauser.

There is a guy who posted a video on YouTube, and ever since, the internet got flooded with misinformation. I'm not sure what to beleive.

He says it will blow your head off.

My friend has been shooting it in his for years.

I just got one, looks to be in very nice condition, good bore.

I don't reload, nor can I get into it.

I see 7mm Mauser everyone here in Canada at stores.

Can I use that ammo?

My face is too precious to get blown off. Should I have a gunsmith verify it?

Thanks

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[RCS]

It was published during the last forty years or so (American Rifleman) that the 7x57mm chamber dimensions were not standardized until well after production of this model had ended. Therefore, there is a
variation in chamber dimensions among early 7mm rifles and carbines and not unique to Remingtons only.

I have fired old 7mm cartridges in 7mm Remington rifles without a problem (many years ago) but doubt I would do this now. Most of the 7mm Remingtons that I have owned were rebarreled to other calibers.

[Patrick Chadwick]

The formally correct solution here would be to have the gun proofed. Over here that would cost somewhere around €40 if you took the gun to the proof house yourself, so it's not a bank-breaker. Sending it in via a licensed carrier makes it more expensive, but still a 2-figure sum. The proofed gun is then stamped by the proofhouse. Here they are well aware that people don't like modern stamps on antique guns, so you can arrange to have the proof mark applied in an unconspicuous place, like underneath the barrel.

After passing proof and being marked, your gun is officially OK to use with standard CIP-marked ammo for that chambering. This means that you can sell it later with a clear conscience.

On the other hand, if you take it to a gunsmith, he will hum and haw and will express himself as cautiously as possible, avoiding giving you anything in writing that could be wilfully interpreted as a guarantee that the gun is safe to shoot. It's the only way he can protect himself against future liability when some fool loads the thing with "hot" ammo, blows himself to bloody pieces, and then claims it was not his fault because it had been guaranteed "safe to shoot". The gunsmith goes bankrupt while the lawyers have fun.

And for the same reason, it is unreasonable to expect anyone here to give you a written assurance that it is OK for you to fire that gun.

A prudent gunsmith will probably advise you, as I wrote above, to have it proofed. I have seen enough of the opinions floating around on the internet to conclude that a) I would rather trust my own judgement than most of what I have read, and b) in the event of trouble, that wouldn't help me either.

Get it proofed or live with the personal liability.

[browningautorifle]

Get it proofed

We don't do that sort of thing here in Canada. It's simply not available. The best he can do is have it inspected and that boils out to a gunsmith's personal opinion. If they fire it, that would be just as described...

[WarPig1976]

Proofing in North America consists of tying the rifle to a tire with a string attached to the trigger. Pop one off. Did it hold together? Yes, you just proofed it.....

[browningautorifle]

You could read about it...it apparently was chambered in that caliber. Remington Rolling Block rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[butlersrangers]

I shoot my 7X57mm Remington Rolling-Block, but, reload for it specifically. The Rolling-Block and probably most Mausers have earlier (different) chamber dimensions than the current industry standard.

Since the 7X57mm cartridge is rimless and head-spaces in the chamber at the cartridge shoulder, current 7X57mm ammo will often create an excessive head-space situation, when used in a Rolling-Block or early Mauser. That doesn't mean these early arms are faulty. The cartridge dimensions just changed! (Current Factory Loads risk excessively stretching the cartridge case and 'case failure').

This situation can be corrected by RELOADING: I use new brass, a mild 'Starter' load, 'Neck-Size' only (by backing-off my Full Length Re-sizing Die one turn), and segregate the fired cases for exclusive continued use in my Rolling-Block. During the initial Firing, the rifle extractor (Rolling-Block or Mauser) keeps the cartridge positioned in the chamber and the low pressure re-load 'Fire-Forms' the cartridge case to the rifle's chamber.

(Of course, an even safer route would be to 'Fire-Form' brass cartridge cases to the rifle's 7X57mm chamber using a paper wad (no bullet) and a light pistol powder load).

I personally avoid firing Factory Ammo in my 7mm Rolling-Block. I do fire it in my 1893 Mauser and then use the fired cases for my Rolling-Block.

If I took these excellent condition rifles to most current (low information) "Gunsmiths", I would be told "they have excessive 'Head-Space' and not to fire them"! I consider my method quite safe. (Also, IMHO - I see little purpose in 'Proof Testing' your Rolling-Block. The Goal is to avoid cartridge case failure. This is possible by 'fitting' the brass to your rifle's chamber).

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[Patrick Chadwick]

Basically, I agree with you. But the original query was

"I don't reload, nor can I get into it.
I see 7mm Mauser everyone here in Canada at stores.
Can I use that ammo?

And what I suggested was, at least in these parts, a "safe" answer" under those conditions. One might be tempted to write "idiot-proof". However, my experience with idiotic behaviour is that there is no such thing as idiot-proof.

As it appears that, west of the pond, one relies on lawyers rather than proof testing, that leaves the original poster with the option of living with a possible hazard or not shooting the rifle at all.

If you study my contributions, you will find that I always advocate reloading with neck-sizing only - for any rifle - for optimum performance AND longer case life. Since my major shooting activities revolve around ancient guns for which there is certainly no factory ammo available, and often not even cases*, it's the only way to go. Especially since they are all veterans which deserve careful loading in order to extend their usable life. And I understand the New World reticence about proof firing - if for instance, the motor in your brand-new automobile is "red-lined" at 6500 rpm, you would be foolish to "proof" it by revving it up to 8000 rpm. It might survive, but you could well have initiated bearing damage that will seriously shorten its life. Doubtless the manufacturers undertake such testing to establish reliable limits - but the overdriven test objects will not then be offered for sale!

The same could be argued for gun barrels - the overpressure might initiate a metallurgical defect that would never have occurred in a lifetime of normal loading. As I said, I agree with you, and it seems to me that the original questioner, in declining to get involved in reloading, is barring himself from low-risk enjoyment of old guns. What in German is described as a "wash me, but don't make me wet" situation.

*Such as 11.3mm Gasser or .44 Henry Flat or 11,2x37,5R...

[butlersrangers]

Patrick - I respect your logic and point of view. I enjoy your knowledgeable posts.

IMHO - The OP should not fire current 'off the shelf' 7X57mm ammo in his Rolling-Block. It will likely be an excessive head-space situation. At the least, it will probably stretch and weaken the cartridge case where the case wall joins the case head. In the event of a case separation, the Rolling-Block would not handle hot, high pressure, escaping gases as well as more modern actions.

As you mention, this is really a situation where reloading is needed. Safe ammo could be crafted that properly fits the chamber of his rifle while keeping pressures low. The owner would have to make it himself or hire the services of a knowledgeable and conservative re-loader, familiar with the issues involved.