My First Krag, Would Appreciate Some Insight

[mxracer_84]

Hey guys, this is my first post as I've come to this community to hopefully find some info about a neat rifle I picked up from work the other day. I work at a local gun store and we often get in used surplus rifles which I enjoy collecting. Since I'm Canadian I mostly collect Enfields and Ross rifles but the other day a guy came in with a Krag rifle. I knew very little about the Krags and I have never seen one in person but I've always found them interesting so later that day the gun followed me home. It had a funny story about how it got up here, the guys dad had bought it off an American out of the truck of his car in the parking lot of a bar while he was down in the States haha the good old days. Anyways, I've done some research and from what I've found I think I might have a carbine model but I seem to keep finding contradicting information so I hope you guys can give me some insight on this neat little rifle.

The serial number appears to be 80841 (1897 manufacture) but sometimes looks like 30341, it's dated 1895 on the receiver, appears to be uncut, has from what I can figure an original front sight and the rear sight is an adjustable ladder sight marked to 23. The front barrel band is obviously wrong and it's missing the upper handguard (both of which I'd love to replace). The magazine cut off works in the down position which I've read can vary as well. The gun seems to be in excellent shape so even if it's been sportorized or is a faked carbine it'll still make a great shooter. Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated, I'm excited to learn more about my first Krag (and first American surplus rifle)! Thanks for looking.

Information

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[RudyN]

From what I have seen and read that does look like a genuine carbine. However, from the picture it look like the barrel band has been replaced. I am by no means an expert, but do own two Krags, a rifle and a cutdown rifle that was made into a "carbine". I am sure someone with more expertise will be able to help you soon.

[mxracer_84]

From what I have seen and read that does look like a genuine carbine. However, from the picture it look like the barrel band has been replaced. I am by no means an expert, but do own two Krags, a rifle and a cutdown rifle that was made into a "carbine". I am sure someone with more expertise will be able to help you soon.

Yeah the barrel band is definitely not original. I'm hoping I can figure out what this rifle is "supposed" to be so I can track down the correct barrel band.

[jon_norstog]

MX, it looks like the real deal to me. I had a carbine of similar vintage, marked 1895 model. It too had been "upgraded" with the 1901 sight and newer wood. Like yours, mine was sans handguard, mainly 'cause I took it off and lost it. Yours looks like it might have seen tropical service - the Army didn't issue gun-cleaning supplies and the troops would use bacon grease to keep their Krags from rusting solid. It rained practically every day. You could get the right barrel band and a handguard pretty easy. A few of those carbines had sling swivels added - arsenal or field modification. Those are a lot easier to haul around the woods hunting.

Overall I'd say the Krag carbine is easily the best hunting rifle ever made by Springfield Arsenal. Good luck with yours.

jn

[mxracer_84]

MX, it looks like the real deal to me. I had a carbine of similar vintage, marked 1895 model. It too had been "upgraded" with the 1901 sight and newer wood. Like yours, mine was sans handguard, mainly 'cause I took it off and lost it. Yours looks like it might have seen tropical service - the Army didn't issue gun-cleaning supplies and the troops would use bacon grease to keep their Krags from rusting solid. It rained practically every day. You could get the right barrel band and a handguard pretty easy. A few of those carbines had sling swivels added - arsenal or field modification. Those are a lot easier to haul around the woods hunting.

Overall I'd say the Krag carbine is easily the best hunting rifle ever made by Springfield Arsenal. Good luck with yours.

jn

Jon, thanks for the info and sharing about some pretty interesting history! Are there any tell-tale signs that make you think mine may have seen tropical service and gotten the bacon fat treatment? I've found some Krag reproduction handguards at this site here, would I be needing the 01 handguard since I have the upgraded 1901 rear sight? As for the barrel band there seems to be a few different carbine bands, do you know which one I might need or point me in a direction where I could find that info? I heard about a guy named Joe DeChristopher who had a lot of parts but unfortunately it seems he has passed away. Is there anyone else with a parts cache like he had? I can't wait to get loading and shoot this thing, I think I might even take it hunting next fall. Thanks for the help!

[RudyN]

I have bought some parts from S&S Firearms in New York. Here is their link:

S S Firearms Home

[Salt Flat]

MX Racer, The stock looks like an 1899 Carbine stock to me. The 1895 1896 carbine stock is shorter. Check to see if the cutout for the bolt handle has been enlarged. An 1899 stock will not fit an earliy model without enlarging for the receiver piece that goes around the bolt root. Also to verify that it is not a cutdown rifle stock --Check to see if there are sling swivel cutouts (which are sometimes filled in to fake a carbine) and check to see if the forend tip has been filled in (the carbine will be solid wood here). So, It may be a real 1895 (or 1896) Carbine in an 1899 Carbine stock Others please chime in--- Salt Flat

Here's a link to a great website that shows the differant models:
Krag-Jorgensen Rifle Models

[jamie5070]

You might ask over on the CSP forum as well. There are some very knowledgeable people there.

[butlersrangers]

'mxracer 84': That is an interesting model 1896 carbine that you have acquired. Although it was made in 1895 (verified by the date on the receiver), these early carbines were officially model 1896 carbines.

The serial number on your carbine receiver has to be in the 30XXX range. It is definitely a carbine receiver because of the '1895' marking. Strangely, Krag model and serial numbers, because they are deeply stamped, are very difficult to read and easily misread. ('3's and '6's are easily mistaken for '8's. 'Model 1896' often appears to be 'model 1898'). I would recommend carefully examining your number with a magnifying glass in various lighting.

As a point of interest, Franklin Mallory, "The Krag Rifle Story", 2nd. edition, has tables (listing data on officially documented Krags) "Serial Numbers of Known U. S. Krags":

#30341 - 96 carbine - 09/22/1900 1st Cav (turned in) "model 95",
#30840 - 96 carbine - 05/27/01 1st Cav,
#30850 - 96 carbine - 09/22/00 1st Cav (turned in) "model 96",
#80841 - 96 rifle - 09/10/98 Co. I 4th USV Inf (received) {FWIW - this would not be marked '1895'}

Caution - this was the "SRS Data" (Springfield Research Services) Mallory had found at the time of the 2nd. edition. Only a direct hit on a serial number verifies the krag being documented in official records. (No other assumptions should be made because of numbers being close).

Your (1895 made) model 1896 carbine like many model 1896 and model 1898 carbines was updated. There is an official 'long forearm' stock (similar to the 1899 carbine stock) that Springfield made to bring 1896 carbines more in line with the 1899 carbine. Your stock appears to be one of these. This update stock for the 1896 carbine is cut for the 1896 bolt handle recess, does not use a sling-bar & ring, and has a spring to retain the barrel-band. It would use the same barrel-band as the 1899 carbine. (Frequently sold on ebay about $50).

Your carbine has the 1901 carbine rear-sight. The Leaf is calibrated to 23 (2,300 yards) and there is no compensation for bullet drift. There is a small "c" on the 'eye-piece' "V"-notch, there should also be a "C" on the left side of the leaf and the left side of the base. It is likely both the ('1901' sight) rifle and carbine "humped-sight protector" hand-guards were used with this carbine model.

It looks like you picked up a desirable carbine worthy of a correct barrel-band and hand-guard. (A rifle hand-guard is easier to find and likely just as correct -IMHO).

photos - 1.(an 1899 barrel-band) 2.(1901 carbine sight) 3.(original 1896 carbine stock - note bolt handle recess) 4.(Krag Collectors Association Forum chart of Hand-guards - 3rd from left and extreme right are 'correct' with your 1901 sight) 5.(1899 carbine with 'rifle' hand-guard)

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[Salt Flat]

Butlersrangers, Excellent write up! Salt Flat