No. 5 Accuracy

[Ridolpho]

Parashooter- My mistake. There appeared to be two distinct "clusters" in your MKVII target and I assumed the final 5 shots were the smaller grouping to the left and slightly down.

Ridolpho

[Strangely Brown]

I've often wondered that had we adopted the British .280, (EM-2) and re barreled the No.5's what the result might have been?

I'd like to think it was a success!

[Frederick303]

As a competitive shooter I have often wondered how different the competitive shooting world would have been if the EM2 had actually been adopted in 1951 and the US had seen the light, adopting some kind of 7mm rifle, firing a 139~140 gr bullet with a muzzle velocity in the 2,415 to 2,450 range.

Such a rifle would have forced a change in the entire direction of competitive shooting, to a course of fire more in line with the second half of the 20th century, instead of the long range totally impractical course of fire based on the requirements of the Boer war that continue to dominate US and commonwealth competition to this day.

As such traditional competitive shooting are pretty much dying a slow lingering death.

[Bindi2]

The NATO 5.56 is not a very practical military round for country use because of the distances involved. Long range sniping with big calibres is very much in use.
I use a 7mm rifle with a higher muzzle velocity than 2500fps with heavier pills than 140gns for F class. Range shooting has separated from the Military and become a accuracy over distance sport not a means of keeping rifleman skills.
As a personal thought I think the 7.62x39 and the 7.62x51 the better choice for infantry use.
Yes traditional shooting is dying. F class maybe the next evolution as TR is in its self an evolution from Military style.

[Gil Boyd]

Sadly the 5.56mm change brought into UK Forces, was so that we could allign with the United States after the Vietnam War.
IMHO the one biggest military mistake we have made since WW2.
We should have stood our ground, and told others to conform to our more effective 7.62mm round.
Due primarily to this change in my view, we now see a proliferary of several weapons in UK sub units such as a Platoon size, all carrying a variety of rounds.............ludicrous and one where it will see soldiers travelling a dangerous path in major conflicts of the future!
I am sure there are those who have greater experience in this "misjudgement" over the years and seen it first hand.

[Peter Laidler]

In REAL life, the mechanical complexity of the 7mm EM rifle took it out of the hands of the normal soldier. Just the bolt alone was a masterpiece of total complex confusion.

[Gil Boyd]

It goes much deeper even than that.
With the cut backs of over 5000 procurement staff from Abbey Wood and Donnington, there seems to be a rash trend to try any new weapon systems that comes on the market from any country, and get it into a trials programme of sorts at Sennybridge with DTU.
This then takes the programme down a different route of flash eliminators "for the use of" each weapon trialled.

To see guys on the firing points with various rounds and systems led me to my conclusion on the mismatch. But the cleaning regime was a sight to behold and absolutely cluster f***.
Very frustrating to watch young sodiers clutching for their old GPMG cleaning kits and as you say Peter the bolt assembly and firing pins were an absolute meccano set and a challenge to any unit Commander.

It takes the simple integration of a different weapon to cause so many serious soldiering issues, and the main one is ensuring ALL in the formation are properly trained on the system. Something due to the continuous campaign changes in various climatic theatres, is rarely properly carried out IMHO.

[WNO1958]

I have both a No.4 and an No.5. I bedded the forend following instructions I received from this forum. I free floated the barrel. Often, I will shoot 9 of10 shots in 2.5" (100 yards) but one shot will be missing. Either, it is 4 inches away or sometimes completely off the target. This never happens with the No. 4 or any of my other old guns.

Thinking that it had something to do wit the crown, I removed the flash hider and polished the crown. This did not solve the problem. Last time out I shot at 200 yards - had a nice group going and then it moved up and to the right about 5". This gun baffles me.

[Peter Laidler]

It baffled the Army too...........

[Frederick303]

Capt. Laidler.

Looking at the EM2 bolt assembly, it appears to be derived from the G43 bolt with the locking wedge system. Would you say that basic system is too complex for fielding? There certainly are a lot of little parts to be lost and you have to fiddle to get the parts back in the rifle. Was the EM2 more complex to reassemble or were the defects that made it even more complex then the G43/G41 locking system?

I ask as it seems that the EM2 offered a generational improvement on infantry weapons. Again, just based on specs, it seem to offer the use of a rifle to 600 meters, a compact arm suitable for close combat, a 1x day optic which seems to be the rage now , 6 decades on and finally a round in a straight recoil system that is more controllable on automatic mode than any of the comparable rifles of its era. Truly revolutionary, or so it seems to somebody who has never handled one.

Just curious as to your take on this, if you have the time.