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  1. #1
    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    New Martini Henry MK IV

    Been wanting one for a couple of years but not having much luck finding them. Noticed a fellow putting them up on Gunbroker and happened to take note of his location. Turns out he's 15 minutes from me so I made arrangements to see a few on Thursday evening. He pulled half a dozen out for me, some cleaned, some untouched. I took a chance and opted for an untouched one. These are from the Nepal stash, he handpicked them when he purchased them and out of 60, he only found one with a bad bore.

    Seller on Gunbroker is: markthenav

    Based on my experience with him, he's very knowledgeable and describes his rifles in great detail. He does not to my knowledge sell untouched on gunbroker but his cleaned ones are quite reasonable.

    Mine is complete, came apart with only one problem, the cocking indicator was beat to crap and did not come out easily, in fact part of it sheared off going through. It had been flattened larger than the hole. It was not an issue with the screw. I'll have to build it back up with a weld I guess and retouch the end. Bore is very nice but the weirdest rifling I've ever seen. Almost no rust on exterior but some pitting under the wood line on the barrel, nothing deeper than about a 32nd of an inch. Wood is solid, has some light tiger striping. Took me about 5 hours to strip, clean and reassemble it. Now for a few more coats of BLOicon.

    If you can tell me anything about the history or the markings, I'd appreciate it.



























































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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Am I seeing this correctly?

    The roundel butt marking here, where one can see an "ON" at 3 o'clock:


    do not seem to be the same as the butt markings here, where the ON is no longer visible.


    The deep scratch between the roundel and the rectangular armory stamp is also greatly reduced. Did you perhaps undertake some "dent removal" treatment? It now almost looks as if it was overstamped.
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 01-16-2016 at 04:45 PM.

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Roundel on M-H butt

    As no Martini-Henrys were being made in 1908 - apart from Khyber-Pass Specials! - the fragment visible in the first (uncleaned state) photo probably shows a later overstamp from an Indian/Nepali facility, while in the second photo (cleaned state) I think I can just about make out an "ENFIELD" in the bottom half of the roundel.

    Try turning the butt around slowly in a strong but directional light (to bring out shadows) and maybe you can make out more than is possible from the photo.

    ---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

    Receiver :
    The rifle was a newly-made MkIV, not a conversion.
    Since the Mark was centered, a conversion from a MKI, which would originally have had the I centered, always has the V, which was added later, on the right of the I, making the IV off-centered.

    Barrel:
    N.S. = Native Service
    N.E.P. = Nepal

    ---------- Post added at 11:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 PM ----------

    You will now have to add Skennertonicon's "A Treatise on the Britishicon Military Martini" to your "to get" list. Wherein, amongst other information, you will find that this is a MKIV type "C"... all new parts, full-length knoxform /unlike A and B types) and the later ramp foresight.

    ---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    the cocking indicator was beat to crap and did not come out easily, in fact part of it sheared off going through. It had been flattened larger than the hole. It was not an issue with the screw. I'll have to build it back up with a weld I guess and retouch the end.
    Contact Peter Dyson in the UK. He might have an original spare part.

    ---------- Post added at 11:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    Bore is very nice but the weirdest rifling I've ever seen.
    That's not weird, it's Henry rifling! (I hope).

    Upset a .45 lead bullet in the bore, at the start of the rifling. When you get it out, you will be able to see the profile.
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 01-16-2016 at 05:19 PM.

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    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    Going around the circle, I can only make out PIND and later a WUL. Already have a replacement cocking indicator on the way from IMA. Figured buying a replacement would save a whole lot of aggravation trying to fix the existing one. It's bent and worn a bit on the end also. It was so frustrating watching the videos of guys just tapping these out. I didn't want to hurt anything so it took forever and it still broke. To get it back in, I had to grind it down a bit.

    The rifling is correct for the rifle, just never encountered it before. Wide land, then double small grooves is best way to describe it.

    I believe the roundel is: Rawul Pinda which is an Indian Arsenal. 1908 is the year of disposal The 1 indicates first class weapon.

    So it would seem this saw Indian service until 1908 and was transfered to Nepal at that time or was refinished in 1908 by the Indian arsenal for transfer to Nepal in either the second or third batch. This roundel supposedly is over stamped over the original which could be Enfield and why I can't read anything on the bottom.

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    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    Patrick,

    Missed your first post somehow.

    No, I didn't do any dent removal, just washed it twice. I didn't do anything around any of the markings other than rub them with oil. Used some steel wool on the very top of the buttstock because it got fuzzy when I washed it. Everyplace else was nice and solid. Photos are at different angles and I'm sure the crud did emphasis some things and reduce others. The long scratch at the top was almost all in the crud and was fresh so when cleaned off, it nearly disappears. Never really noticed the one between the stamps.

    It isn't ON, it's ND and I have confirmed the armory Rawul Pinda.

    There are other faint markings in the stock. There is a faint crown over a number below the lever and an E D mark along with what looks like a circle with wings on each side on the bottom of the forestock.
    Last edited by Aragorn243; 01-16-2016 at 08:41 PM.

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification. The usual spelling is Rawalpindi, but I agree that it looks like Rawul... It seems that the original Enfield roundel was completely crudded up, and Rawalpindi simply applied their stamp on top if it, crud and all. That is why the Rawalpindi stamp is partially legible in the first photo, which shows no hint of the Enfield stamp. Crown over number and E D sounds like an Enfield inspection stamp.

    "Circle with wings..." Photo please!

  13. #7
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    It really was Rawul Pindi !!!

    Well, whaddya know!

    As I have the "older brother" of your rifle, I got it out and had a close look. Here are the results:

    Attachment 68853

    In this case, the Enfield stamp has been obliterated before applying the Rawul Pindi stamp
    - or, of course, the butt is a replacement!

    Please note, that what I wrote previously with regard to the MkI / MkIV marking does not apply if the conversion involved a new receiver (see Skennertonicon P.147) - as appears to be the case with my rifle.
    Attachment 68851

    The short knoxform and the old-style foresight block show that it is indeed a Type A conversion.
    Attachment 68852

    And here is the best photo I could make of the rifling.

    Attachment 68854

    But I cannot find any trace of fore-end marks as you described. Please tell me the exact position, and I will look again.

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    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Another One of That Kind

    Here is an earlier reference to my Martini-Henry

    Grease between Forend and Barrel - Some form of bedding?

    ---------- Post added at 07:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    Been wanting one for a couple of years but not having much luck finding them.
    Well it took me 4 years to find a good one, after seeing endless wrecks and Khyber-Pass Specials. So I reckon you too had some luck in the end.

    BTW, the M-H was and IS a very tough rifle. Read about the test procedure in Skennertonicon (you know, that book you're going to get) and be duly shocked - you wouldn't want to do that to any gun! So if the rifling is good, you have a rifle that, with proper maintenance, will outlast all today's black plastic stuff with its fiddle-faddle levers, catches and springs*.

    *Apart from anything else, the plastic will have degenerated long before it reaches the age of our M-Hs - 129 years and counting!
    Last edited by Patrick Chadwick; 01-17-2016 at 01:34 PM.

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    Contributing Member Aragorn243's Avatar
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    Patrick,

    If you look at the fifth photo from the top on the left side you can see what I'm describing as a circle with wings. Sideways teardrops might be a better description. You can see the circle and the right "wing" pretty clearly. The left is fainter with both the crud and the cleaned version.

    I do not think the Enfield stamp is completely gone. If you look close, you can see the outline of two circles, especially on the left side. The bottom of the stamp can't really be read because I think the Enfield is still there along with the newer stamp on top that just mixes everything up. There was a nice larger crown and I think a 2 stamped on the butt itself under the butt plate. I didn't take a photo of it.

    There is also an interesting thin brass plate between the wood and the steel plate. Would this be original or was it something added in the field. In any case, it appears to be there to keep the wood from touching the steel and causing either rot or rust and it appears to have worked as the interior of the buttplate is nicer than most I've taken off. It's very thin and has the bend at the top included.

  16. #10
    Advisory Panel Patrick Chadwick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    There is also an interesting thin brass plate between the wood and the steel plate. Would this be original or was it something added in the field. In any case, it appears to be there to keep the wood from touching the steel and causing either rot or rust and it appears to have worked as the interior of the buttplate is nicer than most I've taken off. It's very thin and has the bend at the top included.
    That is original, and was indeed used to separate wood and steel. The M-Hs also had brass buttplate screws. Since both the predecessors and the successors had brass buttplates, it seems to have been an unsuccessful idea to save brass.

    ---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    If you look at the fifth photo from the top on the left side you can see what I'm describing as a circle with wings. Sideways teardrops might be a better description. You can see the circle and the right "wing" pretty clearly. The left is fainter with both the crud and the cleaned version.
    My rifle has a barely discernable number in this position.

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