When was the end of the P-1907 bayonet

[Cottage Hill Bill]

Does anyone have the LoC entry declaring the P-1907 obsolete? I know there was the WSC run during WWII for the Navy. When did it actually get withdrawn from service?

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

Unless it was used separately in regard to something else, then it will be on the same date as the rifle. This is because when the primary equipment becomes obsolescent or obsolete, the order also declares the same status to the remainder items. For example, when the L1A1 rifle became obsolete everything else relating to it became obsolte at the same time. Bayonets, magazines, scabbards.

On the other hand, when the No5 rifle was finally declared obsolete, the bayonet remained in service as did most of the other odds and sods relating to it such as the tools and gauges. Same as when the Vickers gun became obsolete, certain gauges were NOT included because these gauges were also applicable to the Bren.

It is the Equipment Manager at Ordnance (the old and wise WO2 Taff XXXX REME was our small arms Equipment Manager for several years) that makes the decision and he'll usually phone around a few of the Armourers and workshops before he declares it obsolete. He would phone us up at work and tell us he had this that and the other stock being declared obsolete and withdrawn from stock and stores if we wanted or needed any.

[Mk VII]

The parade for the King's visit to HMS Ganges in 1946. http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/gangp374.htm

Another guard in 1954 - at least some with Sht L-E's from the bayonet length http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/gangp333.htm

Photographs at HMS St Vincent appear to show them through 1949. 1949 | HMS St Vincent Association

[mr.e moose]

So if it is the date of the rifle being declared obsolete then that would push it into the 70's. It was around there when the Indians retired it, wasn't it?

[Peter Laidler]

Er....... Cottage Hill Bill didn't specify in which nation. I just gave the text book answer relating to the UK Military!

[Cottage Hill Bill]

I was enquiring about the P-1907 in British service. So, if it went out with the SMLE then the question still remains, when was it officially declared obsolete?

[mr.e moose]

The No.1 was in service as long as 1953 as far as I know because that is the latest FTR that I have seen. The No.4 still serves on in Canada.

[Peter Laidler]

You have to be careful with BSA FTR's because BSA was a purely commercial facility that did Government work, such as making No8 rifles post-war on contract. All UK Government FTR work was done at Maltby (only No4 and very little as it was the first ROF to close) and Fazakerley. Fazakerley weren't involved in any No1 rifle FTR.

BSA along with Westley Richards (WR) were large buyers of ex WD weapons simply to refurbish and sell on commercially. There was said to be a lot of skullduggery involved too. Because while the Government were eager to sell on vast stockpiles of small arms too, BSA and WR often found themselves sat on large stocks of FTR'd weapons already contracted for - but the Government approved export licences were 'held-up in the post' as the saying goes.......

So the date the No1 rifle was declared obsolescent in the UK Military is the date the bayonet and all the associated accoutrements became obsolescent also.

As a matter of interest, when I was attached to 8 RAR, the Regimental Orderly Sergeant wore a highly polished No1 rifle bayonet in a scabbard and frog on his belt to denote his status that week

[Sentryduty]

Regimental Orderly Sergeant wore a highly polished No1 rifle bayonet in a scabbard and frog on his belt to denote his status that week

I kept one to use as a map pointer when delivering weekly intelligence briefings, the unit CO and RSM found it a humorous sight gag while the younger officers were always appalled to learn that was actually an enlisted-man's bayonet during the First World War.

[Cottage Hill Bill]

So, does anyone here actually know the answer to the question?