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Thread: Ugly M91/30 - What's Russian for "Bubba?"

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    Ugly M91/30 - What's Russian for "Bubba?"

    I recently picked up an M91/30. On top of paying way too much I apparently got the last one at the bottom of the crate, as there was no hand pick fee when ordering unless you emailed them (which I only found out about AFTER I ordered). On the plus side it is a 1926 Hex with a super clean bore, though I don't like to call it matching when it is obviously renumbered, including the old serial being lazily struck on the magazine plate/trigger guard; I prefer "arsenal renumbered" which every part on the gun is.

    Problem is I get this thing out of the box and it has the worst refinish I've seen on one in awhile.





    The stock is really bad. I think the person who did this one had a little much vodka for lunch as the front of the rifle and handguard have this really poorly applied, completely different color shellac on it that is flaking and very uneven. In addition they obviously did some of this work with the rifle assembled as it is on the barrel bands and magazine. This is most obvious with the slop in front of the hand grips.





    The metal work is crappy too. Randomly on the metal is this awful black paint. On the butt plate it's covering up some rust and where the original serial was ground, but they didn't completely cover the part leaving some of the original bluing too. On the barrel and receiver it's just randomly slopped on in blobs in odd spots, like it just kind of fell there, not that it was actually applied on purpose. Most of this hides under the wood but near the muzzle and sight there is some spillage as well that looks bad. During the mineral spirit bath to clean the rifle a bit flaked off and on the barrel/receiver it's not hiding anything like the butt plate.

    So what should I do with this gun? Collector wise it has very little value since it's been refurbed at least twice. Once when it was converted to M91/30 spec and again post WWII judging by the replacement stock (dovetail toe, pressed in sling bushings). I've never considered refinishing a vintage gun before as I'm of the mind it should be left as it is. But despite this refinish work technically being original it was either done by someone who didn't know what they were doing or didn't care, and for a fairly common rifle that is renumbered (and thus not truly original anyway) I don't think it would really hurt the value if done right.

    Basically the options I have are stripping the shellac and refinishing, or trying to soften it up and blend it but given the very different tones and flaking I don't know if it is possible. When on the metal should I clean up the random splotches of black paint or leave it all alone? I think I'm being overly critical on the gun because I regret buying it for the price I paid but this is the roughest one cosmetically I've seen in awhile.
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    Fixing the Russian Bubba

    I'm sure a lot of people will have their own opinions, so I'll offer mine for what it's worth.
    First, since you don't have a highly collectable rifle, you can take a few liberties with it, without spending a lot of money.
    Second, be sure the gun is safe and shootable. That is always the first thing, bar none. Fix anything that has to do with safety.
    Third, the metal: just strip off the glop and globs, degrease, and reblue (cold reblue should be fine).
    Fourth, the wood: strip the entire stock using paint remover and steel wool. Make any wood repairs if needed. Those dark areas may need bleaching. Try to get the wood color as uniform as possible. If those dark spots are still obvious, you might have to scrape or sand them if they are shallow. It not, you might have to do some fancy staining and blending. If the wood is really dry, be sure it is treated with Boiled linseed oilicon. If you aren't familiar with alcohol or aniline stains, stick with oil based stains. Then treat with Boiled linseed oilicon or Tung Oil.

    Make it look as good as you can so you can be proud of your workmanship and have defeated Bubba.

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    I can tell you what I did to my 26' dated Mosin AND every other Mosin I own. I stripped that crappy peeling shellac right off and oiled them, also the black paint. My thought process is it's coming off anyway.
    Any rust was killed and cold blue applied. I don't care about what these will be worth in the future because for one they're mine and they ain't going anywhere. Two, let's be honest, these rifles ain't gonna be worth mega bucks. They're not rare and everybody has at least 5. My 2cs.

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    I stripped and oiled two and I put so many coats on the one that you can't tell it isn't the original shellac BUT, it doesn't flake or come off. Probably 30 coats, I had a lot of time on my hands. There is a lot of debate on what was original on these and I for one am of the opinion that the crap shellac wasn't meant as a wartime finish but a storage finish. That being said, I have seen wartime photos that does make it appear that the shellac was indeed applied when new. These photos for the most part show rifles that have 90% of said shellac completely missing. Other photos seem to show an oil finish and some sources I read were that the shellac is a WWII and later application with all pre-war being oil.

    Strangely enough, I actually do have 5 of the blasted things, weird coincidence or a statistical fact? The last two I purchased I left alone because I got the "you stripped off the original finish" guilt trip going on. The 5th is a Finn capture and it has an oil finish, no sign of any shellac ever applied. I also have an M91 which has an oil finish.

    My advice, do whatever you want with it. I honestly don't think it's going to matter in the long run. As stated, they aren't rare, the guys that want original finish already have them and the guy at the gun club complaining he missed out on them when they were cheap is going to be more interested in one that looks nice and shoots well than one with crappy, flaking shellac and black paint. But that's just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aragorn243 View Post
    Strangely enough, I actually do have 5 of the blasted things, weird coincidence or a statistical fact?
    For me it was if I didn't find anything else I left the show with a $100 Mosin and 10 expired boat parachute flares to amuse the neighborhood kids,,,,and myself. So, statistical?

    I agree, I think it was a storage "finish". Some aren't in bad shape so no need to do anything. But, there's an odd group think out there that promotes not doing anything beyond wiping the rifle down and greasing any rust on the beat ones. None of those people have yet to tell me their magic touch and how they are able to keep the peeling shellac from coming off during use. Or how greasing over rust is beneficial to the rifle in the long run. You know, when said purist is too old to care about oiling and greasing his guns once a year. After he's dead, do his heirs care enough to grease the rusty spots? Nope.

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    Looks normal, to me.

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    I have had some success with denatured alcohol for schellac removal. Did not seem to reaise the grain like paint stripper.

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    I don't know much but I have read the manuals for maintaining and repairing 91/30s. The original manuals.

    The stock repair (where finish was scraped off) is as follows:

    Clean off and lightly sand damaged area
    Apply walnut stain and let dry
    Apply oil and let dry
    Apply unbleached lacquer (equivalent of shellac but it was a special lacquer NC-something...

    So when refinishing, what I do us use denatured alcohol to remove old shellac. Examine the wood. If more cleaning is needed, or if other finishes are found I strip those.

    Do whatever I need to do to get the oil or cosmo out of the wood. Sawdust is a great to pull stuff out of the wood. Calcium carbonate is also great.

    Stock is soaked in acetone, then either a calcium carbonate paste (cake batter consistency of calcium carbonate and acetone mix) is generously slathered over the stock, or the acetone soaked stock is covered with sawdust (also soaked I acetone) and sawdust pressed on as hard as possible to create good contact. The stock is then placed into a box painted black so it attracts heat and left out in the sun.

    As acetone dissolves cosmo and other oils in the stock, as it dries, the sawdust or calcium carbon (basically chaulk) acts like a sponge and pulls the crap out.

    Both mediums will be brushed off and the stock can get another light wash in acetone.

    Once the stock is ready - even colored - no more oils are coming to the surface, etc. I start refinishing.

    Light sanding or steel wooling. Surface moistened to raise "fur". Steel wool to get the raised grain off. Coat of walnut stain, dry for 24 hours. linseed oilicon, dry for 1 week (or BLOicon, dry for 48-72 hours. Then fresh shellac (I used mainly garnet and lemon colors 3 to 1 mix dissolved in denatured alcohol).

    I usually apply as the armorer would. Sloppy for authenticity. Let dry for 48 hoirs between coats or it will be sticky due to undercoat never really drying.

    And then done.

    And I have no pictures to show because I have sold the ones I refinished.

    Edit: forgot to mention that if I remember correctly, after lacquer was applied on tat repair spot, and dried, it was polished with (can't remember the name of the fabric) but basically it was rubbed with a felt like fabric to smooth the area.

    I use steel wool (very lightly) to smooth each coat of shellac.

    And when a playing new coats the most important thing is to not rub or previously applied shellac will dissolve and start getting pulled off.
    Last edited by MosinVirus; 03-26-2016 at 02:32 AM.

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    Nice Job. Did you have a couple of shots of vodka between coats, like a true Russianicon?

    The idea of using lemon and garnet flake shellac to get the original color is informative.

    Shellac can be notorious for chipping, that's why it's more often used as a sealer, rather than a final finish. Have you considered using Tung Oil or something similar as the final finish?

    --------
    Just a matter of personal pride -- but I'd never put a sloppy coat of anything on a gun I owned, even if it mimicked the Russian quality. Why perpetuate a poor standard?
    Last edited by Seaspriter; 03-26-2016 at 06:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaspriter View Post
    Nice Job. Did you have a couple of shots of vodka between coats, like a true Russianicon?

    The idea of using lemon and garnet flake shellac to get the original color is informative.

    Shellac can be notorious for chipping, that's why it's more often used as a sealer, rather than a final finish. Have you considered using Tung Oil or something similar as the final finish?

    --------
    Just a matter of personal pride -- but I'd never put a sloppy coat of anything on a gun I owned, even if it mimicked the Russian quality. Why perpetuate a poor standard?
    Oh it all depends on what you are going for. I completely agree that shellac is not great top coat. But to those that want to reproduce what was there originally, it is the only thing to use, because I personally cannot find a new version of that lacquer they used on 91/30s (for color match)

    I am an ex-USSRian but from Ukraine originally. And, yes, vodka is a pretty standard drink for me. LOL, but it may dissolve shellac...

    I was just sharing what I found to work for me when trying to reproduce that finish.

    In any case, if you need to look up some information in Russian, like Russian manuals, hit me up.

    Oh, I did try Tung Oil finish, so it was more of a varnish, and it was great, and I tried Danishicon Oil, also interesting, and TruOil by Birchwood, and BLOicon. I like them all. I like to experiment for sure.
    Last edited by MosinVirus; 03-26-2016 at 12:53 PM.

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