Lithgow F1

[Lee Enfield]

seems to be a bit of interest in the F1 right now

- F1 Submachine Gun The F1 submachine gun adopted in...

http://www.australianarmsauctions.com/cat_online_5.html

lot 430 shows details of the barrel removed from the tube, looks similar to a closed bolt sterling in that the barrel is held by a threaded collar from the front, and the chamber end is fitted into a support bushing.





as a matter of interest, lot 432 is a Vickers "GO"

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[mrclark303]

The F1 is an interesting looking piece, looks like what what would happen if an Owen a Sterling and an L1A1 had a threesome without taking precautions...!

[Peter Laidler]

There was a bit of a story about Lithgow, Enfield and those Sterling magazines. Can you guess where a lot of the ideas came from?

[Lee Enfield]

There was a bit of a story about Lithgow, Enfield and those Sterling magazines. Can you guess where a lot of the ideas came from?

I will have you know sir that those are "ministry of supply" magazines as manufactured by rolls razor ect. under contract to the UK MOS..

Messers Sterling and Patchet had no involvement sir... so tell it to the judge if you don't like it....



I guess the real question is, did Enfield force Lithgow to pay licensing fee's on their (MOS) intellectual property rights?? of Sterling's stolen patents?

[Peter Laidler]

I wondered if asomeone might ask the question............. They might well have been made by Rolls Razor and Mettoy etc for the MoS but the design of the feed roller assembly, the pressed curvilinear indentations and other features of the magazine were the sole property rights of George Patchett and the Sterling Armaments Co. So there!

Sterling did indeed tell the judge. The Crown argued during the case that the actual magazine case was totally different. It was even called something else but the Judge wasn't having any of it. He awarded costs against the Government to Sterling. But even after that, the MoS tried to tell Lithgow that they, the MoS owned the IPR to the magazines that they wanted to use in the F1 SMG and both sides got bogged down in wrangling. Lithgow had already been in 'talks' with the MoS/Enfield about manufacturing the L4 Bren there so they knew it was going to be like pulling teeth.

Sterling got to know about this palava so one Friday, the affable James Edmiston walked over to the Australian Military Attaches office at the High Commission in The Strand, with all the court papers and told him that HE and the Sterling Co were the rightful owners of all the property rights for the 'Sterling' patented magazines. He said that from that moment on, Lithgow were free to manufacture all the Sterling magazines they required to fulfill their orders for the Australian Army F1 SMG, free of charge and costs, with the compliments of the Sterling company. Any outside orders (outside the Aust Army) would be subject to royalties of course or another agreement in that they'd have to buy magazines from Sterling.

[muffett.2008]

Attachment 72243 Shown this before.

.........and this one, don't even remember what it was, but I do remember thinking that it was a piece of junk, front handgaurd heated up that much you couldn't hold on to it.Attachment 72244

[Peter Laidler]

Do you still wear the AMF badge on your left arm Muffer? We used to wear a brass Australia badge in our epaulettes too. Is that a 5.65mm FN? We had the last of the Owens and first of the F1's although our preferred SMG - or certainly the one that was issued was the AR15/M16

[muffett.2008]

Yeah Pete, they wear a small OZ flag these days.

[Lee Enfield]

Attachment 72243 Shown this before.

.........and this one, don't even remember what it was, but I do remember thinking that it was a piece of junk, front handgaurd heated up that much you couldn't hold on to it.Attachment 72244

FN FNC

Indonesia and Sweden were the big adoptees after Belgium.

[martins8589]

I think the Owen was way better than the F1. No one I knew liked the F1 compared to the Owen Gun.