NZ marked CLLE

[Roy]

A mate of mine got the the NZ marked CLLE on Trademe in NZ, I told him it was pretty interesting so he took a punt at it. Does anyone else here have a NZ CLLE? there is one member who I messaged, but how many of these are out there?

According to site 'NZ arms register' (a great site) "In 1919 MLE Mk I & I* held in store were reported as being converted to charger loading and sighted for Mk VII ammunition, however no rifles have so far been observed converted to CLLE at this time"

This one has no factory name or date near the 'CLLE' on the wrist and the rear sight is not a regular CLLE sight. There is a 'N' on the left wrist. The magazine and trigger guard have lost their link loops. The butt has a '03' on it which corresponds with the 1902 manufacture date. Other than that its a regular mixed up NZ MLE* which has a charger bridge

So its either, civilian made and stamped, a mixed up English CLLE with later NZ parts (Pre ww2 as it has NZ home guard marks on the receiver) or a colonial attempt at making a CLLE

The 'N' I take to be a Navy mark however ive never seen or heard of the NZ navy marking items with an 'N'

What you you guys think? can get more pics/info soon.

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Information

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[Ridolpho]

Roy: The CLLE I and I* have different rear sights but I think this one looks correct for the Mk I. The I* has the unusual windage adjustable type. I think yours may be a "normal" as opposed to commercial conversion. Off topic but just saw an interesting photo showing a Canadian soldier with a CLLE I* quite late during the Great War (The Somme). It would be nice to know more about the history of use of these conversions.

Ridolpho

[Roy]

Ah, interesting. It looks to me like this one has the standard MLE 500 yard sight not modified for MKVII ammo.

When NZ rebuilt many of its MLE's in 1919-20 they used BSA commercial barrels with a 600 yard graduated sight.

[smle addict]

I don't know if this will help out or help muddy the waters.

I have an LSA converted CLLE Mk I. It was originally a BSA made LE Mk I. It still carries a faint BSA cartouche on the right side of the stock. Curiously, it is wearing an early style trigger guard chained to a magazine, with c-spring and early follower, both LSA (x) marked. It also has the early style cut-off, and a groove cut into the charger bridge for the lower sight line of the LE sights. The rear sight has been replaced with a Sutherland sight, an obvious non-military addition. The dial sight plate is marked CL. Clearing rod groove in the fore-end was never filled in. The buttplate tang is marked 9th HLI with a date of 12/09. The CLLE conversion was done in 1910. The verdict? My guess is it became a bitser after it was downgraded to DP status.

The second set of pics are from a VSM converted CLLE Mk I*, with all the seemingly correct CL parts. Dial sight plate CL marked, correct (but mismatched) CLLE rear sight, SMLE type magazine and cut-off. I also have a second VSM CLLE Mk I*, and it too was converted in 1909. Both have mismatched bolts.

My guess is your Charger Loader is the real thing, probably a local conversion. I remember back in the early 90's a batch of MLE Mk I*s came onto the market. All were NZ marked and thoroughly mismatched.

It's a good looking rifle, hope you enjoy it!

[Roy]

MLE 1's and 1* are fairly common in NZ compared to the rest of the world, we bought tens of thousands for cheap in 1913-14, however the NZ CLLE conversion is so far undocumented.

The NZ forces probably had no official CLLE parts but perhaps purloined a bunch of charger bridges for a trial which was never widespead.

In 1914 and 1919 many NZ MLE's were broken down and rebuilt. seemingly from a pile of refinished parts. This CLLE has a SK barrel band and volley dial.