No 5 Conversions

[TerryChambers]

Help me out lads, is there any historical basis for a No. 5 being converted to a NATO round? What about a No. 1 being converted to a No. 5? Looks like a put together to me but input is appreciated.

Terry

Information

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[#5MK1]

http://www.angelfire.com/nh/milarm/fakes.html



These are just the commercial models in the U.S. There are many other conversions done by various governments.

[villiers]

Stratton notes that `Several thousand Sterling conversion kits were made for the No. 4 rifle, and a handful for the No. 5. Similar kits were also manufactured by the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield.´

But nothing is noted as to how many were officially installed or whether they were ever issued.

I would also appreciate further information.

[breakeyp]

As has been stated and based on catalogs/perspectus I have, Sterling published advertising offering No.4 and No.5 .308 conversion kits. Enfield also put out a brochure offering similar conversions using the L8/L42 magazine. I am not aware of any governmental body that availed themselves of the offer. I corresponded with Stirling attempting to buy some kits but they had already passed them onto the trade.

I am aware of and have handled one legitimate .308 No.5 conversion done by Long Branch using a No. 1 MkVI receiver with unique markings (that I don't remember). I expect that it was a test bed for the conversion concept. Long Branch may have been following in Enfield/Sterlings footsteps.

[#5MK1]

I used to have a ton of info. on conversions, but I can't find the links on my Computer now.

Years ago, I found a company in Minden Nv. that converted Enfields to 7.62X39.

They were cutting up real #5MK1s to convert. Which to me seemed insane, but they did it.

I contacted them to see if I could buy the parts and wood they weren't using for their conversions.

That was back when CIA imported #5MK1s from Malaysia and they sold for just a few hundred bucks.
Prior to that #5MK1s were in the $500 and up price range, if you could find them at all. Most were in estate sales.

IIRC SOG, who had the exclusive on the Malaysian #5MK1s for years, sold them for around $189.

I don't recall what other cal. that outfit was converting them to. They are still in business. Links at bottom of post.

I also remember a link that one of the fellows from down under provided, that had a lot of conversions to various cal. in it. I don't remember if they were gov. or commercial conversions.

This link may be of interest also.



Lee Enfield # 4 (re-barelled to .308) - If you own one, this is a must read



Here are some recent links to the outfit that is doing conversions.


Special Interest Arms






index.html





These are just for interest, on what is out there.



Century did some conversions about two years ago.

They used #4MK1s and converted them to look like #5MK1s.

The workmanship was OK and in gen. the rifles were a good buy for under $200. For folks who could not come up with the high price of a real one, it may have been a deal.

As shooters and truck guns they were exc. I have known folks to buy these knock offs as truck guns. This would give them a nice rifle to beat around and save the real ones from abuse. Out West these were just the ticket, in .303 they could handle anything that came up.

Collectable only to folks who collected knock offs. Which is a an area of collecting in its own right.

The GIbbs and Santa Fe carbines as well as other knock offs are hard to find and the definatly sell for a premium.

The Indian .308 rifles were converted to carbines by Santa Fe and others. Stamped on barrel is Jungle Carbine. They are now hard to find and pricy.

A lot of collectors denegrade them and dismiss them as junk. They are not junk and are hard to find and expensive as hell.


I collected only REAL #5MK1s for more years than I care to remember. I could never understand why anyone would try to improve on IMO a perfect rifle.
#5MK1s have got to be the most copied rifles EVER.

At the same time, Century also sold a converted #4MK1 to .45 ACP with a long magazine.

I never heard any feed back about those.


Since none of these from Century sold at as high dollar pieces, it is a good bet that Century used rifles that had destroyed stocks or other issues to make these. Since a complete #4MK1 with a VG or better bore, which is what all of these conversions had, will sell for almost as much as the conversions. So, it would not be cost productive to cut up rifles in good shape.

Just a bit of hist. on conversions here in the U.S.

[#5MK1]

BTW can someone tell me how to go back to a post and edit for spelling or typos, mistaken info. etc.

Can't seem to find the edit feature.

Never mind. It just popped up.

[TerryChambers]

Thanks for all the input. The angelfire.com article was particularly helpful. This was a gun being auctioned on GB and was apparently an a conversion of a No1MkIII to the 7.62 (2A1 I believe ) and then later converted to the No.5 complete with barrel, and the proper forends but retained the buttstock of the No.1 by parties unknown. The "No.7" as described in the article. It is probably a good gun and the starting bid was $269 but received no bids. I agree that I don't see the merits of an aftermarket "improvement" to these and hence did not bid. Thanks again.

Terry

[Peter Laidler]

Me and Sgt Roger XXXXX converted his No5 from .303" to 7.62mm NATO some years ago using a chrome lined L4A4 (Bren) barrel. Machined down and sleeved the breech end, threaded it and breeched it up using a single L1A1 breeching up washer and it shoots a treat. Not as fast firing as its previous incarnation on a Bren would like it to be though!

While talking about No5 venturi flash hiders, he machined the old fluted L4Bren flash eliminator onto the No5 foresight block as we had loads in the scrap bin! It looked wrong so reverted back to the venturi and still has it.

He maintains that the standard length (is it 17" or so?) No5 barrel in 7.62mm is not the best for accuracy but with RG 7.62 ammo being dirt cheap, he doesn't worry about it. I shot it last Monday along with a couple of other bog standard ones and it's still nice........... Nicer for bing cheap too!