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Thread: Semi Auto Bren extract problem

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  1. #11
    Legacy Member Joe H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyG. View Post
    If the striker spring came from another source then it may be too strong and is prematurely retarding the rearward movement of the internals. The recoil spring shown appears to be the standard outer spring or a Mk I. YAs you indicated... In many cases the gas port in the barrel and the largest orifice in the gas block were drilled over sized by Len to allow for more gas to drive the system. Adjust these holes conservatively and in small increments as once removed... metal is hard to put back. If Len did not build this gun I can understand why he is hesitant to try and address its current malfunctions- too many unknowns in its construction. Hope it works out for you.
    Can't add much to what Wally said. Could be a combination of a too strong striker spring and a weak return spring. The MK I return spring? in the pic was replaced by a double spring in all Mks. I had an old MkI spring and had to replace it with the double spring. The semi's can be made to run on gas setting 3 or 4 but for best reliability the holes should be opened up since you are compressing an additional spring in the semi set up.

    Looking back at your pics. the first thing i would question is the striker spring setup. Looks way too stiff. I've built semis with a striker spring in that location but it was much smaller and just slipped over the return rod , went back in the return rod hole and cocked the striker on the bolt return.

    Thread on resizing gas system:

    https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=45105

    Good Luck

    Joe
    Last edited by Joe H; 06-02-2016 at 08:14 AM.

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  3. #12
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    locchau's Avatar
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    Thread Starter
    Scoobsean, I will take the pictures you asked this afternoon when I get off from work and maybe some pictures inside too if I can. WallyG, all I’ve got from the seller is that he bought the semi kit from Historic Arms. I suppose that the kit contain all semi parts including striker, striker spring and semi trigger parts. I should have asked the seller if the gun’s working before buy it, but I didn’t. I have send the seller an email of how he build the gun and if he had drill the barrel or gas regulator but he did not reply, maybe I can get an US piston and try to replace the original one before trying to drill the regulator ports. I read some old thread and someone (I think Joe H if I get it right) have try to drill the barrel and regulator, below is his information

    The Historic Arms (Len Savage's conversions) SA Brens have had the barrel and regulator ports opened hugely. Even with no receiver binding, they have little power reserve. Don't have the sizes in my head, but it ought not to be too hard to source the numbers

    I checked the gas hole sizes. The Bren barrel hole is .150" as is the #4 port on the regulator. The exit nozzle on the gas block is .161". The regulator #1 port is .101", #2 - .116", #3 - .136", #4 - .150"

    Since I'm using #3 and mostly #4 I'm going try to redo the gas system to work on #2. Hopefully that will give me some measure of reserve.
    Below are all Number (wire gage) size drills.
    Trial Modified Gas System for semi-auto
    Barrel hole - .185" #13
    Gas block exit - .196" #9
    Regulator #1 - .1285" #30
    Regulator #2 - .147" #26
    Regulator #3 - .1695" #18
    Regulator #4 - .185" #13
    Barrel hole & gas block exit were no problem with HSS drill bits. The regulator was a different story so I annealed it and am sure it now can be drilled with normal tooling. I'm hesitant to use carbide since it chips easily and I'd have to buy all the drill sizes. I've got an old spare barrel & regulator to experiment with. I doubt it will be necessary to re-harden the regulator after it has been drilled for semi operation.

    Note. Mr. Joe H, I Apology not seeing your thread until after I posted. Do you have any luck with drilling the barrel and regulator holes as you mention on some of the old thread? I will start with a new striker spring, double recoil spring and will look at the old thread that you recommended. As I mention, the seller did not get back to me and as WallyG said Mr. savage reluctant to have anything to do with and I don't blame him. Thank you all for the helpful information that you all provided, hope I can get this gun to work and I really that I have learn so much from all of you in the last couple days.
    Last edited by locchau; 06-02-2016 at 08:41 AM.

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  5. #13
    Legacy Member Joe H's Avatar
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    locchau,

    The link I posted will give you the specs for the piston head diameter and my drilling trial for the gas system.

    Checking the head dia. of the piston will give you an indication if that is part of your problem. I did successfully drill out a regulator to the sizes I posted. The barrel hole and exit hole can easily be done with a hand electric drill. The regulator is another story. It is hardened and has to be annealed (heat to 1600 deg F and slow cool) before it can be drilled with HSS tooling. Each port on the regulator is 2 cross-drilled holes. I did the drilling in a mill and it was very tedious as each hole had to be lined up then drilled, 2 setups per port.

    I'd be looking at the springs and any indication of binding before I did anything to the gas system. With no round in the chamber pull the cocking handle back slowly, see if you notice a change in force particularly at the location where the case is just fully out of the chamber.

    I've never handled or seen a Historic Arms Bren so I really can't comment on how they should be set up.

    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe H View Post
    locchau,

    The link I posted will give you the specs for the piston head diameter and my drilling trial for the gas system.

    Checking the head dia. of the piston will give you an indication if that is part of your problem. I did successfully drill out a regulator to the sizes I posted. The barrel hole and exit hole can easily be done with a hand electric drill. The regulator is another story. It is hardened and has to be annealed (heat to 1600 deg F and slow cool) before it can be drilled with HSS tooling. Each port on the regulator is 2 cross-drilled holes. I did the drilling in a mill and it was very tedious as each hole had to be lined up then drilled, 2 setups per port.

    I'd be looking at the springs and any indication of binding before I did anything to the gas system. With no round in the chamber pull the cocking handle back slowly, see if you notice a change in force particularly at the location where the case is just fully out of the chamber.

    I've never handled or seen a Historic Arms Bren so I really can't comment on how they should be set up.

    Joe
    I bought 3 striker springs from Len Savage when I realized the one I had was ruined. I will measure one of my spares and post that info and a photo

  7. #15
    Legacy Member Joe H's Avatar
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    locchau,

    Here are the original Bren sizes for the gas system. You can quickly check the barrel hole, exit port & #4 port to see if the previous owner had drilled it out to Historic Arms spec.

    The Bren barrel hole is .150" as is the #4 port on the regulator. The exit nozzle on the gas block is .161". The regulator #1 port is .101", #2 - .116", #3 - .136", #4 - .150"

    Possibly the Historic Arms Bren required the gas port to be drilled out to function properly.

    Joe

  8. #16
    Legacy Member Vincent's Avatar
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    The Historic Arms Bren djandj has in 54R has the standard gas regulator and barrel port.

    ************

    Loc Chau, Do you used the same breech block (bolt) for .303 and 54R?

  9. #17
    Legacy Member ActionYobbo's Avatar
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    how much force is needed to pull the charging handle to the rear?
    mine is no harder than the FAL
    1ATSR 177AD & 4/3 RNSWR

  10. #18
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    Thread Starter
    Again, thank you all for all of the help and in formations that you all provided. I just took some pictures of the bolt face and inside of the receiver. I have removed the striker spring and with just the recoil spring, it is so much easy to pull the bolt carrier back. It is much stiffer with the striker spring in place. I also find that there is very little biding on the carrier with the semi auto welded to prevent original carrier to be install on the side of the receiver, I am dremeling it to smooth it out (stoning and polish) a little at a time. I have made a short video of the binding, hope it come out ok. Joe, I’ll check the barrel and exit port from work tomorrow. The machine shop guy is cool and he also on gun stuffs. Vincent, Yes I use the same breech lock for both and its look like the bolt is enlarge for 7.62X54r. Mr. E it is much stiffer than an FAL with the striker spring installed. I ordered the MK2 recoil spring from BRP Corp Store today, will get it sometime next week. Where can I find a lighter recoil spring? Is it ok to use different striker spring since my striker hole is for the large diameter spring. I took Mr Laidler advice, but instead of Scotch that he recommended I used Heineken and Cognac and they are kicking my a** now. I’ll be dreaming and hope this gun will be working soon, you all have a good night.

    PS. The regulators are different on two barrel, my guess is one for MK2 (the short one) the the other is MK?. will they work on my gun?
    Last edited by locchau; 06-02-2016 at 11:58 PM.

  11. #19
    Legacy Member Joe H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by locchau View Post
    I ordered the MK2 recoil spring from BRP Corp Store today, will get it sometime next week. Where can I find a lighter recoil spring?
    locchau,

    IMO I wouldn't be looking for a lighter recoil spring. I wouldn't use any less than the standard double recoil spring .

    Joe

  12. #20
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    Thread Starter
    Joe,
    I meant striker spring and not recoil spring, words seem leaving after few beers. The little binding as I mention on last thread, turn out much worse than I thought it was. After let my machine shop friend examining it, the problem from the receiver gas tube not straight and he said not by much and can easily fix with a new carrier. I got the measurement as you mention on your last threat below. When you drill your Regulator hole, did you use drill bit or end mill bit? The reason I am asking because I do not have tool to heat it up to 1600 Deg F.
    Gas Regulator # 4 port: .148
    Barrel hole: .149
    Gas block exit: .161
    Piston: 0.625"
    About the Gas regulator, I have a long and a short one. Are they both working the same way? If not which one is the correct one for MK2 Bren? I am ordering a new carrier and MK2 recoil spring, any idea on the striker spring? Should I get a lighter one or use it for now after sorting all of the binding issue.
    Loc Chau

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