"Cavalry" cup and canteen question

[dimmuborgir95]

Thank you very much, I thought that there is any standard covers templates. Unfortunately, neither this magazine "M.С. & H" nor a copy of the article Mr. Coates I was not able to buy or find (I tried to look for). Mike O'Donnell book I recently bought in a US internet bookstore, hoping to get it in the near future. Probably, it would be useful.

Prompt please, in what year there was such a model, with the strap sewn to the rear side of the cover?
Attachment 73591

[dimmuborgir95]

The use of "pattern 1858" and "pattern 1862" are purely militaria collector use to identify the two basic patterns of sheet steel tin-plated canteens produced in large quantity during the Civil War 1861-65. Both of these pattern years are inaccurate but have come to be accepted nomenclature by collectors.

I would like to clarify a little bit. It turns out, that all canteens, were issued from 1858 to '1910 (before the M1910) did not have official names?
it's just a "canteen", there are "no patterns" or "models"?

Same thing with cups - in the pictures of the "cavalry manual", they are called "cup, model of 19**". And earlier cups ( P1875, P1900), had an official name or not?

Attachment 73592

[RT Ellis]

For the most part as far as the Army and the users were concerned the variations in the equipment that is so vital to collectors was not relevant and there was no requirement for specific nomenclature other than canteen, cup, meat can, knife, fork, and spoon. The contracts for canteens often used the term "per the pattern" or similar wording and nothing else was written except variations in material. For example one 1862 canteen contract called for 1000 canteens with black enamel straps. The contracts for corrugated canteens usually specified that pattern, but beyond that it was a "canteen."

Here is the official descriptions of the canteen:

Extract from Army Regulations, Revised Regulations for the Army of the United States, 1861, 22:
1578. Canteen--of tin, covered with woolen cloth, of the pattern now issued by the Quartermaster's Department.

Extract from Army Regulations, “Extracts of Revised Army Regulations” The 1863 Laws of War, 206:
1606. Canteen--of tin, covered with woolen cloth, of the pattern now issued by the Quartermaster's Department.

Extract from manual, Quartermaster’s Manual, circa 1864, 41-42:
Canteens--to be made with two semi-spherical plates of XX tin, corrugated, and strongly soldered together at their edges ; 7 5/8 inches in diameter ; 3 tin loops, 1 inch wide and 1/4 inch deep, well and securely soldered on the edge of the canteen, for the carrying strap to pass through; one of these loops fixed to the bottom, and the other two at a distance of 4 inches each, measured from the outside of mouth-piece, or nozzle; mouth-piece cylindrical, of hard white metal, 7/8 inch in diameter, edged over at the top, strongly soldered on to the canteen by a tin apron, which is also soldered on to the canteen; velvet cork, 11/4 inches long, to fit the mouth-piece, and capped on top with tin, through the centre of which extends a galvanized iron wire, 1/8 of an inch in diameter, with a loop at top, 7/8 inch of an inch diameter (inside), secured at the bottom of the cork by a galvanized iron or white metal washer and screw-nut. Attached to the loop of the cork wire and to one of the loops of the canteen, should be a strong piece of cotton or linen twine, made with 4 threads, hard twisted, 20 inches long, and doubled together, to prevent the loss of the cork ; the canteen to be covered with a coarse cheap woolen, or woolen and cotton fabric, and to contain 3 pints. Strap to carry the canteen, to be of leather, with a buckle ; or made of linen or cotton, doubled and seamed on the edges ; or else cotton or linen webbing, 3/4 of an inch wide, and 6 feet long. Weight of canteen, complete, 11 ounces.

Starting in 1872 the Ordnance Department issued a series of manuals in which similar descriptions of equipment was provided that would have been more useful to ordnance arsenals, depots, and contractors than users. But the standard pattern was still the prevailing "specification." Occasionally in correspondence a specific "pattern" or "model" (the terms used interchangeably to mean the same thing) with a year was mentioned, but this was primarily intended to differentiate variations for identification purposes and was not in any way official nomenclature. After the Army started sending aluminum material equipment for field test the term "aluminum" began to be included in the nomenclature, but the model year applied to the issue items sufficed to identify the specific item. What occurred was that if there was a variation in items that was significant to the unit requesting equipment the ordnance manual and paragraph describing the item was referenced in the Order for Supplies (a form used for requesting uniforms and equipment).

Another interesting unofficial nomenclature was the term "old model" that was applied to the previous pattern equipment still in the supply system after a new pattern had been adopted and was available for issue. This was probably part of the realization that more specific nomenclature was needed and lead to the official model designation as part of the nomenclature.

Rock Island Arsenal in 1908 sent for trial 300 aluminum canteens with detachable cover. Apparently because it wasn't possible to attach the usual triangular loops to the canteens the snap hook was attached to the back of the cover with a section of web material. The reports from the units that tested these canteens were not only enthusiastic for the canteens, but also favored the snap hook attached to the cover rather than the separate web canteen strap (p1904) then standard. In 1909 two new patterns of canteens were manufactured that were assigned specific nomenclature: In a previous post here I described a canteen specific to mounted application that went into production in 1909 that featured rectangular loops in place of the standard triangular loops, this canteen had the official nomenclature of "Cavalry canteen." As the result of the favorable comments in the test reports Rock Island Arsenal in 1909 started assembling the snap hook to the back cover and this canteen carried the official nomenclature "Infantry canteen." So in 1909 a unit could order a "canteen" a "Cavalry canteen" or an "Infantry canteen." To complete a Cavalry canteen a "Cavalry canteen strap" was required to be separately requisitioned. Apparently the nomenclature Model 1909 was occasionally used and collectors that have done some research refer to the Infantry canteen by that model designation, but the nomenclatures as noted are what appeared in the price lists and other official documents. Of course these canteens soon became "old models" with the adoption of the infantry equipment M1910.

[dimmuborgir95]

Thank you very much for your detailed description! Over the past two days, with your help, I learned a lot.

[RT Ellis]

Here are some extracts of manuals that may be useful to an understanding of cavalry equipment in 1913-1917 FYI:

[dimmuborgir95]

Excellent illustrations! Since "my English" is very bad, the drawings and manuals are very helpful to better understand the written text. Besides, I always very interesting to see the old documents of those times.

..and were in fact re-covered starting in 1875 with a coarse wool material known as Petersham. My observation is that Petersham was usually gray with some variation in shade.

That is, an early example of this type (with web sling) looks like this?

Attachment 73631

[RT Ellis]

The situation with the program to re-cover canteens in compliance with the Infantry Equipment Board's recommendation and report published in Ordnance Memoranda No. 19, 1874 is not entirely clear. The Board met at Watervliet Arsenal and requested the arsenal to produce two sample canteens. Apparently the sample canteens primarily featured the adjustable web strap with "Chambers" buckle. The replacement of the chain or cord isn't mentioned but definitely a feature of the canteen re-cover program early on. (I use the hyphenated "re-cover" to indicate that new covers were assembled and the canteens weren't recovered as in salvaged from a dump, however in documents the term "recovered" was used to indicate new cover material was cut and assembled) To complicate this situation at least two arsenals were known to have re-covered canteens, and materials were made available to other arsenals, ordnance depots, and units for the re-cover and later double-cover program.

From the samples I have examined it appears that the corrugated canteens were selected to be re-covered.

The first step in this program was the selection of canteens and most were shipped from Frankfort Arsenal where it is assumed the canteens were either stored at the request of the OQMG or transferred there from PQD after responsibility for canteens was transferred to the Ordnance Department. The canteens were stripped of the covers, and the stopper chain or cord removed. Presumably there was an inspection performed at this point to detect any defects.

A section of brass plumber's chain about four inches long was then assembled to the ring pull on the stopper and the other end was assembled to a loop of brass wire that was clenched onto the neck of the canteen. Watervliet Arsenal reported the production of Petersham covers during the 2nd quarter of fiscal year 1875 (October-December 1874). The fiscal year ran from July 1 to June 30. In this case fiscal year 1875 was July 1, 1874 to June 30, 1875). A new Petersham cover was assembled, the web strap was laced through the strap loops and the free end folded and sewn to prevent it from slipping out of the buckle. In some cases the end was folded back and sewn, and probably a little later the corners of the free end were folded in and sewn which formed a pointed end.

The next step in the program was to additionally cover the canteen with duck material. The first double-covered canteens manufactured by the arsenals were reported in the first quarter of fiscal year 1877.

These canteens may be found with the replaced Petersham covers, straps, and cork chain, either re-covered or double covered. Apparently when the arsenals started double-covering the canteens the bottom strap loop was removed, and the web strap was doubled over and sewn at the interior ends so that it would not slip free of the strap loops. Removal of the bottom strap loop made for a tighter assembly of the new covers and a somewhat better appearance. This final pattern of the "double-covered" was manufactured by Watervliet Arsenal in FY 1877, 1880, and 1882. The post 1878 production at Watervliet appears to have been intended for issue to the militia. Rock Island Arsenal produced canteens in 1877, and 1878.

The re-covered or double-covered canteen was replaced in the regular service with the canteen (pattern 1878) and canteen strap (pattern 1878).

[dimmuborgir95]

Richard, many thanks for the detailed answer and your continued support!

[dimmuborgir95]

I have a question for "post WW2" "insulated" canteen. In which year began its release? I read, that in 1959, this is true?

Attachment 73769

"Tan" 2 quart canteens - are the "official Army model" or not? Or produced only "tan" covers ( canteens themselves were green)?

Attachment 73770

[RT Ellis]

A brief history of insulated containers FYI. In March 1916 a thermos bottle known as Vak-Kanteen was offered the Ordnance Department by Vacuum Can Company. Samples of the Vac-Kanteen were tested and reported unfavorably, and there was no procurement. The OQMG in 1941 sought to obtain insulated canteens similar in shape to the canteen M1910 for trial during the winter of 1941-42. Landers, Frary & Clark replied that such a canteen could be produced, quoted the price of manufacturing the dies, and stated the canteens could be completed long after the scheduled winter maneuvers. As a consequence no procurement was made. L.F. & C. indicated they were manufacturing an all steel insulated vacuum bottle under the Stanley trade name. This insulated thermos was contracted during WWII by both the Army Air Force, and the Navy Bureau of Aeronautics, for use by aircrews. Post WWII during joint winter warfare exercises in Canada this same insulated bottle in a 1-quart and 2-quart sizes were tested. So the Canteen Insulated that was designed and issued for many years wasn't exactly a new idea.

I have a test example of the Canteen Insulated dated 5-58, and an official report indicated the 1959 date for adoption. The earliest contracts I have researched are dated June 1961. The Canteen Insulated was replaced by the current issue Canteen, Cold Weather CRS (MIL-C-44348(GL) 13Dec88).

As to the 2-quart collapsible canteen, there has been no government procurement of this canteen in any other color than olive green, although I have to report that I have recently examined some odd shade olive green canteens in both Army, and Marine Corps clothing and equipment sales stores. Any other color plastic canteens were manufactured for commercial sales, and won't have the canteen cap M-1 with the connector valve for the protective masks.