Berdan primers

[aspen80]

Does anyone have an up to date/recent source for Berdan primers.

Most sources listed are out of date.

Thanks

Information

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[Ex Crab]

Murom primers from Russia are available in Europe, I would expect that someone would import them into North America. I've used their large rifle primers in 7.62 and 30-06, the results are just as good as the same loads in Boxer cases.
The company's website:
Joint-Stock Company "Murom apparatus producting plant" | АО Муромский приборостроР¸Ñ‚ельный завод
AL1
Even better:
Primers for cartridges of service, sportive hunting arms | АО Муромский приборостроР¸Ñ‚ельный завод

[aspen80]

I see they are available from Canada too.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Here in Oz we used to get an amazing array of RWS Berdan primers.

These days? Not so much.

There is a glimmer of hope for those desiring the "standard" .217" size.

"Someone" imports into Oz, the Finnish "Kemira" primers of this size, which suits many of the European rifle cases.

Tomorrow I am off to pick up a couple of thousand of these to use in batches of 7.62 Nato and 8 x 57 brass.

Sadly, the bloke from whom I have been buying this stuff for years, demised a while ago, but his wife and son are carrying on as best they can.

[henry r]

bruce, do they .250" at a decent price?

not that I have been able to get the water de-priming thing working, I just ruin the cases.

[browningautorifle]

I see they are available from Canada too.

Yes, I didn't speak though because I'm not sure what your importing would be like...

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Henry:

Not that I have seen, but I will ask when I collect my .217s later today.

The other size that is "useful" is .254". These are found in a large number of European cartridges, including 7.62 x 54R, 8 x 56, and quite a few Brit and European "big-bore" sporting cartridges.

RWS seems to have deleted pretty much everything from their Berdan line. I still have one packet of the dinky ones used in "military" 9mm para pistol cases (and European .22 Hornet).

I have enough .250" (RWS 6000) to see out my dwindling supply of ex-"Commonwealth" .303 cases. Because the original "mil-spec" primer in these was Mercuric-based, you are lucky to even get one reload before the brass starts cracking near the neck and shoulder.

As for depriming, I have tried both mechanical and hydraulic methods. For "original", copper-cupped primers, hydraulic is the way to go; no risk to the anvil and the soft cups simply get all torn up whist being dug out, leaving you with a "problem" case.

SUBSEQUENT deprimings are done with the RCBS Lachmiller tool; nice and easy because you have removed the remnant crimp before seating the replacement primer, AND because the BRASS cups on the RWS 6000 don't tear out like the copper originals.

My "hydraulic method" involves the use of an old "O"-frame press and a standard full-length sizing die.

Set the die so that the lever system is at top dead centre when the shell-holder bottoms on the die.

Make sure the decapper / expander stem is OUT.

Once the case has been driven into the die, fill it with water using a test-tube wash bottle or similar.

The "decapping pin" is simply a hardened steel pin that is a close fit down the neck of the case in the die.

Start the "pin" into the neck and then give it a swift "wallop" with a copper-faced mallet. NEVER use a steel hammer, for several reasons:

1. There is a strong chance you will start striking "CHUNKS" off the pin, OR the hammer - major eye hazard.

2. The "head" of the pin will start to "mushroom", leading to greater risk of the hazard in point 1.

3. WHEN you eventually miss, a steel hammer is not a good thing to be hitting expensive dies with.

Due to neck-thickness variations, it is handy to have several "pins" ground to a variety of diameters; this also enables you to treat 7.62 x 39, 7.62 x 51 and .30-06 brass as well.

One bloke I knew used to bore and ream out the .250 Berdan pocket to take shotgun primers. OK for round-ball "gallery" loads, however, .303 runs at MUCH higher pressures than 12ga. DO NOT try this with Mk7 equivalent" loadings. And the cases still crack anyway, because of the mercury contamination.

Pretty much all of my "bush" ammo in .303 and .25-303 is based on these cases. I don't even look for them once the "action" starts. It is more fun to watch the other blokes rummaging through the weeds looking for their expensive Norma brass.

Now, if you have retained a stash of the 1950's FN .303 brass, it is a better option, despite also being Berdan-primed.

Firstly, it uses the MUCH more commonly-available .217" sized primer and these are nowhere near as "firmly" crimped in as the Brit / Oz / Indian stuff..

Secondly, as one would imagine, this original primer was LEAD based, thus, no brass degradation from Mercury contamination.

Final caveat: FIRST, source your primers.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

That .254" primer you need for "oddball" European stuff is the RWS 6504. There may be another variant of that, but 6504 is the label on the box in my primer cupboard.

The dinky one for 9mm and small European rifle cases is the RWS 4506.

I'll see if I still have the listing of RWS and Alcan Berdan primers from the 1970s down in the crypt.

The old Italian 6.5 x 52 used its own "special" Berdan primer and I have NEVER been tempted to reload the stuff, what with the weird necks with an internal "step" and oddball (even by Berdan standards) primers, not to mention odd-sized bullets.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

The saga continues:

LHS in Germany, list the following on their website (http://www.lhs-germany.de/en/powder/...ies/primers/):

RWS 4506, 4.50mm, Small Pistol
RWS 4521, 4.50mm, Small Pistol
RWS 5005, 5.00mm, Large Pistol
RWS 5620, 5.50mm, Large Rifle
Packaging unit: 250/2,000 pcs

The nominal size of the original Berdan primer in the 6.5 x 52 was .204". A REAL enthusiast would make up a tiny "shell" cutter and open out these to accept currently available .217" primers.

Alternatively, if you have a sizeable quantity of these cases, you COULD punch in and deepen the primer pocket , open it out to .209" ish to accept LR Boxer primers and bore a new .075" flash-hole.

A more practical chap (or chapette) would simply stock up on the Serbian stuff or reform 6.5 x 54 cases.

As for bullets:

NOMINAL original bullet diameter is .2665". This is a whole two and a half thou bigger than "standard” .264" bullets. No big deal, perhaps, in these rifles. HOWEVER, barrel GROOVE diameter can run to somewhat more again, thus there may be some concern about gas "bleed" around the base of the bullet AND the possibility of a less-than-perfectly concentric fit of the bullet in the rifling as it is fired.

Then again , MOST rifle / ammo combinations of this era seem to work quite well (think .303) despite being effectively "bore-riders".

This little Italian cartridge was among the FIRST small-bore military cartridges adopted anywhere; being preceded only by the .303, 7.65 Mauser, 8mm "Commission" and the 1886 Lebel. It was adopted BEFORE the 7.62 x 54R, 7x57, .30-40 Krag AND the 6.5 x 54 MS.

It is no pipsqueak, driving a 162gn jacketed bullet at nearly 2300 fps and was ballistically superior to several military cartridges adopted after it.

[browningautorifle]

I can't see doing Berdan primed cartridges as most of them are cheap enough to buy the ammo factory loaded.