Indian L1A1 Scabbards

[Flying10uk]

Here are some pictures of the work so far and after great difficulty have got them onto the computer. The masking tape wrapped round the scabbard, prior to cutting, is a method of marking any type of tube in order to accurately cut, nice and share; it is much easier than trying to mark with a pen or pencil. I have made the "new" scabbard slightly longer but will cut it back to size in due course.

[Peter Laidler]

That's what you'd call in REME technical language '.....a bloody good job' and incentive to anyone needing one. But for the extra length required I'm not sure that I'd have used/ruined/wasted a second scabbard.

The only thing that you might have to watch for is that internally, it is clear of weld and crud to fit the spring and mouthpiece. And don't forget that the spring has to open a long way while yu push the blade in.

They're a very impressive looking bayonet. Some time ago someone put a photo up of Indian Army Officers at a passing-out parade with them on their rifles

On the subject of steel scabbards generally, I always wondered why on earth the MoS/Army/Manufacturers didn't simply specify oval, tube, blanked-off with a brazed in square ended insert. Simplicity itself, especially for the No4 type scabbard with that machined sphere at the end. Complicated or what.......? Yet another aside after looking at photo 2....... At the big Command/Base workshops there was a big tray of No4 scabbards chopped-off below the button, that were supplied simply to utilise to replace lost buttons on the No5 scabbards. The photo shoiws that not a lot of braze was used so the buttons could be quite fragile!

Great useful project F-10

[Flying10uk]

Could any-one please explain why the Indians put 4 holes in their L1A1 bayonet tangs when they only used 2 of them? Perhaps they had a choice of grips with different hole pitches??? Are British, Canadian and Australian L1A1 bayonet tangs the same, with 4 holes, and this is more difficult to find out as the grips are riveted on?

[Peter Laidler]

4x holes..... lightness! I think that due to the spacing of the holes you have to use No5 wood grips on the long Indian L1A1 rifle bayonets. I would presume that the reason the holes are spaced as per the No5 is because they simply used No5 tooling to formulate the grip/tang part of the blade. Slide on the L1A1 crosspiece, locate the L1A1 pommel, rivet both and there it is. Just me thinking out aloud. They'd have wood No5 grips by the shed load too

But I'm sure that you've answered a lot of collectors prayers there with the reasonable simplicity of what you've done.

[Flying10uk]

The No5 scabbard is made from a thicker gauge steel than I thought much thicker than that what was used for the pig sticker scabbard. To get a good weld on thin sheet such as this you need the weld to be at the temperature of almost burning through but not quite. It is a very fine balance between getting the weld hot enough and not. Go too much and you'll have a "burn through" situation but too little heat in the weld will result in a weak joint when the weld is cleaned/linnished off.

[Peter Laidler]

It's the thicker gauge steel that made me think of using a new made, wrapped to shape, 1mm or so steel top section tig welded on and along the new longitudinal joint seam. But a good job none the less F-10

[old-smithy]

Mine came with a shortened 1907 scabbard ahorter than the normal ones for th eSMLE baypnet1

[browningautorifle]

I've seen these too, I had one on a "SA" marked 1907 that had been cut for the Owen. It was a 1907 marked to'18, remarked to '44 and an "OA" as well. The "S/A" was reverse of the tang and it had been cut short. The scabbard was a deliberately made to length "Mangrovite" red scabbard in perfect condition...

[Peter Laidler]

Shame that I'm not still at Warminster. I could have asked the Indian Army Liaison Offr for a copy of their L1A1 parts list. That would have shown or identified the correct one or alternatives. Just watched a beating of the retreat in Delhi on TV. Some of their Infantry (Rajput Regiment) on parade had long L1A1 bayonets. Very smart too

[Flying10uk]

Peter, was the Indian army, post independence, as strict as say the British or U.S. army on what is/was acceptable equipment to issue and with what? I know that the Indians used the shortened 1907 scabbard with their own version of the short 1907 bayonet. I haven't seen any photographic proof of the 1907 scabbard being used in shortened form by the Indians with their L1A1 bayonet. Does any-one have any such photographs that they would like to share please?