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Thread: Highest known Sterling L34A1 - Mk5 ?

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  1. #21
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    Peter Laidler's Avatar
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    Off at a frustrated tangent...... So time to turn the page if you are so minded!

    The sheer irony of these time accounting and lack-of-motion studies is that the senior Warrant Officers running them think that it is wonderful. On the basis that they're there because they aren't going to be commissioned and they think that they can jump into a similar job in civvy life afterwards.

    I had to phone a Major up at 'stats' regarding a small problem with FORWARD/JAMES that had percolated downwards like a bucket of crap from one of the WO's at Stats Branch. It had escalated into what seriously looked like becoming a forthcoming discipline matter. To be honest, I didn't understand it all, neither did the Chief Clerk and more to the point, neither did the clerk at PC&A (provision, control and accounting) somewhere else further up or along the food chain. Tom Bowers, the Major (another ex Carlisle boy vehicle mechanic) suggested after a few minutes of huffing and puffing followed by a chat about our old pals from Carlisle that I send the whole bloody lot up to him and endorse the registry bit of this pure guff that we retained '.....on file' to that effect. And that I give the Sgt in the gun-bay suitable words of advice.

    It got worse........ Because I was a Capt; AND a called-up Territorial, I was not authorised/qualified to enter the world of discipline - of which 'words of advice' was a part. Words of advice had to be imparted officially by a Major............ I mean, how xxxxxxg difficult could it be..... Back to Tom Bowers..... who told me to tell Sgt Bxxxxx to speak to him in person the following Tuesday. Advice given, crap file 'filed', no written record, Warrant Officer left jumping up and down like a frog on fire and everybody happy - eventually. All except the WO at Stats!

    Afterthought. Tankie, was Malcom Bennett one of your Guards Sgt Armourers?

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  3. #22
    Legacy Member tankhunter's Avatar
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    No Pete, not a chap that I came across during my Service Time. I'm afraid.

    Yes, as the Service shrinks these days. There are an awful lot of People, trying VERY hard to hang onto their positions. & indeed, attempting to justify their Jobs. (Badly in a lot of cases) Definitely a level of the 'tin God' variety! ....

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  5. #23
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    I knew that you, Brit Plumber and Skippy would chuckle at my dealings with 'stats' Tankie. End of going off at tangents for today!

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Laidlericon View Post
    I knew that you, Brit Plumber and Skippy would chuckle at my dealings with 'stats' Tankie. End of going off at tangents for today!

  8. #25
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    | ¥·¥«¥´¥ì¥¸¥á¥ó¥¿¥ë¥¹ | ¾¦ÉÊ¾ÜºÙ¡Ö½Æ¡× |

    It appears that the GoD book is wrong in regards to serial numbers...this is at least the 3rd Mk5 I've observed without a letter prefix to the serial number. It appears that Mk5 serial numbers were not letter prefixed - probably until James Edmiston took over Sterling and added the "S" for Sisi...rather than "S" for "Silenced" as described in the GoD book.

    The PG on this is coded S67 and the serial number is 953



    This one shows as 278 with no prefix
    http://www.armsregister.com/arms_reg..._mkv_l34a1.pdf
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 01-25-2022 at 02:48 PM.
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  9. #26
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    Like I say and have said a thousand times before and will repeat a thousand times again, the first person who reads your book immediately knows more than you know. Because he knows ALL that you have just written PLUS the tiny bit he knew before. There are several more accurate books on the subject I'm sure. Maybe it's time to sell your valuable copy of TGOD for the premium prices thay seem to be fetching and get one of the more worthy books.

    Just re-read that and it reads a bit facetious. Sorry, it's not meant to be written that way but if it's taken 20 years or so for these 'missing' guns to turn up, that David Howroyd doesn't even recall existed, then it's not bad is it?

  10. #27
    Advisory Panel Lee Enfield's Avatar
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    My posting is not an indictment, merely an educational comment based on (and supported by photographic evidence) observation.

    Your reply raises the question; Have the missing serial number registers ever turned up?

    The excellent book which you and Mr. Howroyd authored points out that the serial number list used (and therefore production numbers) is incomplete and reconstructed based on the personal notes of one of the shippers ( not Mr. Howroyd himself)...

    Also I would note that the commercial Mk5/ UKicon military L34A1 started serial production in 1966 (single serial marking photo in GoD), which was more than 20 years before the book was published.

    I'm pretty sure that Mr. Howroyd had far more important concerns in 1971 than the serial number prefix of a specific model of gun, and we know that the Mk4/L2A3 line serial numbers restarted from S1 (or whatever low number they picked).

    Why would they restart 1 products serial numbers, but not another products?

    Having said that, Colt supposedly started serial numbers on their M1903 at 9999 and counted down to 1.
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 11-23-2016 at 02:43 PM.

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    I feel grateful for all new information that comes to light. It’s all interesting to me. Discoveries by members like LE or Peter’s informative tangents…. It’s all good to me.

    I love to learn. If I am not doing something, I spend my time trying to learn. And learning something about my favorite SMG…. Well, it often makes my day.

  12. #29
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    Vince, If you keep an open mind in life, you will NEVER Stop learning! Even if you are fortunate enough to possess knowledge.
    On a Vast Spectrum of subjects!.....

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  14. #30
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    From photographic evidence it appears that there were approx. 5200 (1000 with no serial prefix and 4200 with the S prefix)commercial Sterling Mk5's produced in addition to the UKicon MOD order(s).


    An observation based on the serial numbers posted on the internet (mostly of new condition guns which were deactivated) is that when Sterling folded, they had guns from approx. serial number S 3200 to S 4200 in stock.

    The next observation is that the commercial mag housings were (probably) all roll marked as Mk4 (L2A3) guns, had the " 4 (L2A3) "welded over and then re marked "5 L34A1".

    Notice also the lack of brackets surrounding the UK MoD designation on the L34A1.





    Notice the smaller font used for " L34A1 " and if you find enough photos (not many exist by the way), sometimes the L34A1 disappears into the mag housing brazing.

    These pics just show the spacing between the "5" and the "L34A1" being different from above. And the L34A1 is on a different vertical Plain from the "5".




    All of the pictures are stolen from the internet and random websites...
    Last edited by Lee Enfield; 11-23-2016 at 02:46 PM.

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